Wow, a 15k a year rise, for a trainee.....
Railway workers' pay offer
Re: Railway workers' pay offer
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
If there is a rail worker earning £55k as a single parent for example. They are probably worse off than a couple that earns £27.5k each with a child.
The household income is the same but the single parent will pay more income tax because they don't have 2 x personal allowances - £25k roughly of the couples income will be tax free compared to 50% of that for the single person.
The single parent would also not benefit from full child benefit compared to the couple.
Consider shopping/heating, it's not double the price for a couple with a child compared to a single parent.
I support all the strikes that are going on and I hope we can force positive change for the better and using someones existing pay to say whether they deserve a pay rise is a short sighted, unconsidered response given that just because someone has managed to work their way into a career that pays (on face value) better than average salary - it doesn't mean they are not impacted by the cost of living.
The household income is the same but the single parent will pay more income tax because they don't have 2 x personal allowances - £25k roughly of the couples income will be tax free compared to 50% of that for the single person.
The single parent would also not benefit from full child benefit compared to the couple.
Consider shopping/heating, it's not double the price for a couple with a child compared to a single parent.
I support all the strikes that are going on and I hope we can force positive change for the better and using someones existing pay to say whether they deserve a pay rise is a short sighted, unconsidered response given that just because someone has managed to work their way into a career that pays (on face value) better than average salary - it doesn't mean they are not impacted by the cost of living.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Certainly not 35k for a trainee
I think a 10% rise accross all grades would be fair, with further negotiation regarding a yearly formula for pay increases going forward.
I know one nurse who would be earning over 50k with a 10% rise.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Band 7 or 8 with loads of overtime?
Re: Railway workers' pay offer
ACP... without overtime
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
I’m on minimum wage and I daily transport ‘prescious cargo’ to and from their appointments for things ranging from outpatients through to chemo etc, all we are asking for is a fair wage for what we do…I have had 2 patients die on my vehicle in the last few weeks and we could do nothing but stand and watch because they had DNAR’ in place…heartbreaking!Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:37 amAbsolutely, nurses pay is shocking for what they do.
Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Which means some get paid more with promotion, training, university courses.... They started on around 48k, been doing it for over a year, so may have had an increment, but even if not 10% takes them over 50k
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
What’s wrong with paying an experienced senior nurse over £50k? It’s not a huge salary at all.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
I know a bloke who lives in a council house and drives a Rolls Royce
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Did I say there was anything wrong?claret2018 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:35 amWhat’s wrong with paying an experienced senior nurse over £50k? It’s not a huge salary at all.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
We need an NHS that attracts people into it, we need a climate where we then retain those people. If people can't have a quality of life they aspire to but can get it elsewhere - to have a low paid NHS impacts us all at some point.
Consider they have spent 3 years of university at £30k of debt - not being able to really work through that time either for me should show a higher salary than a role where you can walk into the job without a degree.
£11 an hour on a 37 hr week is £21,164 a year. I saw a job advertising for a cleaner at a Wetherspoon for £10.90 an hour as an example.
There are probably roles within the NHS outside of those that require medical degree that pay more without a degree too.
You could get that in many industries as a trainee without a degree.
That tells me that the nursing - you say trainee, I say newly qualified with 3 years of training and study/supervision is worth more than where they are today given they will have student debt, annual renewal of their licence to work etc.
Re: Railway workers' pay offer
A lot of nursing degrees, and masters course are paid for by the NHS, at no cost to the student.clarethomer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:00 pmWe need an NHS that attracts people into it, we need a climate where we then retain those people. If people can't have a quality of life they aspire to but can get it elsewhere - to have a low paid NHS impacts us all at some point.
Consider they have spent 3 years of university at £30k of debt - not being able to really work through that time either for me should show a higher salary than a role where you can walk into the job without a degree.
£11 an hour on a 37 hr week is £21,164 a year. I saw a job advertising for a cleaner at a Wetherspoon for £10.90 an hour as an example.
There are probably roles within the NHS outside of those that require medical degree that pay more without a degree too.
You could get that in many industries as a trainee without a degree.
That tells me that the nursing - you say trainee, I say newly qualified with 3 years of training and study/supervision is worth more than where they are today given they will have student debt, annual renewal of their licence to work etc.
As I said higher up, discussions are needed to find a yearly formula for pay increases.. This could include newly qualified nurses able to climb the pay scales quicker if that's what they think is required
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Band 5 nurse (with relevant degree) starts at approximately £27,000 can rise to just under £33,000
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
My household income doesn't get jack from the government and nor should it when I see what others are going through. we are lucky and it doesn't mean that I couldn't be in that position in the future. Our family is very active supporting local charities and very hands on with a local food bank, so we get to see and experience what poverty truly is and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Over the last 3 years - it's dragged more and more people into a world they thought they would never have seen where they would probably have laughed at the thought of needing the services of a food bank.
Nurses, teachers, people who would say they were once able to have a comfortable life no longer can. That is the context of the issues.
The government talk about reducing inflation and therefore not paying more to help do this. This in itself suggests if inflation is reduced, it will solve the issue - it won't.
Inflation is a 12 monthly measure and therefore for inflation to truly come down where something costs the same or less than it did 12 months ago - we need deflation - which we won't want to get as that has other impacts that aren't good for the economy either.
To help explain why I support the strikes
If your shopping cost £100 last year - it costs £111 roughly today using the standard measurement of inflation (reality is that food inflation is much higher than this).
If this time next year its presented that inflation is at 5% - that is 5% on top of the £111 - So your shop now costs £116.55.
If your salary has only gone up by 1% each year then in that time the £100 you had to buy your shopping is now is a little of £102.01 You are still £14.54 worse off.
This compounds over time. That is the issue and it's not right. I'm probably part of the I'm alright jack crowd based on what I earn but I am fully behind you all that are choosing to strike. We shouldn't have division when it comes down to accepting that food banks are needed and that people are choosing to heat or eat.
Over the last 3 years - it's dragged more and more people into a world they thought they would never have seen where they would probably have laughed at the thought of needing the services of a food bank.
Nurses, teachers, people who would say they were once able to have a comfortable life no longer can. That is the context of the issues.
The government talk about reducing inflation and therefore not paying more to help do this. This in itself suggests if inflation is reduced, it will solve the issue - it won't.
Inflation is a 12 monthly measure and therefore for inflation to truly come down where something costs the same or less than it did 12 months ago - we need deflation - which we won't want to get as that has other impacts that aren't good for the economy either.
To help explain why I support the strikes
If your shopping cost £100 last year - it costs £111 roughly today using the standard measurement of inflation (reality is that food inflation is much higher than this).
If this time next year its presented that inflation is at 5% - that is 5% on top of the £111 - So your shop now costs £116.55.
If your salary has only gone up by 1% each year then in that time the £100 you had to buy your shopping is now is a little of £102.01 You are still £14.54 worse off.
This compounds over time. That is the issue and it's not right. I'm probably part of the I'm alright jack crowd based on what I earn but I am fully behind you all that are choosing to strike. We shouldn't have division when it comes down to accepting that food banks are needed and that people are choosing to heat or eat.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
funny that... already done. It was called Agenda For Change almost 20 years ago to bring all the various pay schemes across the country into line https://www.nhsemployers.org/articles/pay-scales-202223Nori1958 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:07 pmA lot of nursing degrees, and masters course are paid for by the NHS, at no cost to the student.
As I said higher up, discussions are needed to find a yearly formula for pay increases.. This could include newly qualified nurses able to climb the pay scales quicker if that's what they think is required
All your required info will be here, and easy to search too - I also think the £37k average is a little high from the info I have found, closer to £33k as an average.
Bottom line is the vast majority of health care workers in the NHS are not remunerated appropriately and it doesn't help when you have government ministers going on TV and lying about salaries etc to paint a false picture for those people who will just lap up what they state as gospel. Yes, some nurses will earn upwards of £50k (and they will deserve that), most will not and deserve more.
Anyway, its a similar issue with the Rail workers - people selectively picking out drivers salaries from government minister TV appearances and taking it as gospel, without understanding that again the majority of rail workers are not drivers and are not on massive salaries. It drives an agenda which is corrupt and being held to account by the union, who I fully support.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Which degrees and courses are paid for by the NHS in Nursing?Nori1958 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:07 pmA lot of nursing degrees, and masters course are paid for by the NHS, at no cost to the student.
As I said higher up, discussions are needed to find a yearly formula for pay increases.. This could include newly qualified nurses able to climb the pay scales quicker if that's what they think is required
Certainly wasn't last time I looked for someone within my wider family wanting to get into it. They used to cover the tuition and pay bursary. Not today as far as I am aware.
Still doesn't justify the starting wage when you consider the differential of pay you get.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Correct.clarethomer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:24 pmWhich degrees and courses are paid for by the NHS in Nursing?
Certainly wasn't last time I looked for someone within my wider family wanting to get into it. They used to cover the tuition and pay bursary. Not today as far as I am aware.
Still doesn't justify the starting wage when you consider the differential of pay you get.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Just been informed we are going on strike on 21st and 28th December
Re: Railway workers' pay offer
The one I know has done a 2yr masters degree fully funded by NHS in the past 3 yearsclarethomer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:24 pmWhich degrees and courses are paid for by the NHS in Nursing?
Certainly wasn't last time I looked for someone within my wider family wanting to get into it. They used to cover the tuition and pay bursary. Not today as far as I am aware.
Still doesn't justify the starting wage when you consider the differential of pay you get.
Certainly advertised on TV for new entrants
I've sat in several university welcome speeches that have talked about fully funded degree courses for nurses, depends how desperate thay are for new entrants as to what they pay for.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Sack all those that strike and replace them with the military or replace them with illegal immigrants who want to work (necessary qualifications, can't be difficult to become a train driver or a nurse) and who would be grateful of the job and pay packet.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Just shortened the quote because it was a long post Zlatan.Zlatan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:23 pmAnyway, its a similar issue with the Rail workers - people selectively picking out drivers salaries from government minister TV appearances and taking it as gospel, without understanding that again the majority of rail workers are not drivers and are not on massive salaries. It drives an agenda which is corrupt and being held to account by the union, who I fully support.
Are the Unions requesting scaled pay rises or blanket pay rises?
If you assume inflation is temporary (it will undoubtedly fall because the oil price - a key driver - has reduced significantly), the question is how do you support your workforce in the short-term initially, and how do you ensure the worst off are best supported?
To your point, I think the issue here is the public make perceptions around the highest earners, who often earn more than themselves. If you’re a minimum wage retail worker, unable to get in to work over Christmas because of rail strikes (and therefore losing your own meagre wages), £50k for a nurse or £65k for a train driver will feel a huge sum.
If the unions were discussing big rises for the masses (say 10%) but smaller ones (say 1-2%) for the higher earners, it would help with that issue. The other angle on this would be to argue for a large one-off payment that recognises the inflationary pressures this year will likely recede. In my experience, a lot of private companies did that but are not paying any/or a very small annual pay rises.
Obviously this is only relevant to the pay element of the dispute and there are other factors at play too.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
So we can pay the workers even less, you mean?pushpinpussy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:21 pmSack all those that strike and replace them with the military or replace them with illegal immigrants who want to work (necessary qualifications, can't be difficult to become a train driver or a nurse) and who would be grateful of the job and pay packet.
Yeah, pretend plutocrats like you would love that!
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
That may be the case where someone working for the NHS has been funded some additional qualifications butNori1958 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:39 pmThe one I know has done a 2yr masters degree fully funded by NHS in the past 3 years
Certainly advertised on TV for new entrants
I've sat in several university welcome speeches that have talked about fully funded degree courses for nurses, depends how desperate thay are for new entrants as to what they pay for.
https://www.uclan.ac.uk/undergraduate/c ... lsrc=aw.ds
The prices are on there.
https://www.ljmu.ac.uk/study/courses/un ... lt-nursing
and here too...
They are desperate for nurses now
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That’s all I can say to that!pushpinpussy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:21 pmSack all those that strike and replace them with the military or replace them with illegal immigrants who want to work (necessary qualifications, can't be difficult to become a train driver or a nurse) and who would be grateful of the job and pay packet.
Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Out of interest, are you a trained paramedic, or employed as a driver?ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:37 pmJust been informed we are going on strike on 21st and 28th December
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
I am Patient Transport, Scheduled Care
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Obvious trolling aside, there’s mileage in the idea of getting the military to help out in understaffed domestic projects. I’m surprised we don’t see it more often.pushpinpussy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:21 pmSack all those that strike and replace them with the military or replace them with illegal immigrants who want to work (necessary qualifications, can't be difficult to become a train driver or a nurse) and who would be grateful of the job and pay packet.
Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Give over, Iam asking a genuine question, to find out who it is that's going on strike
There are people employed as patient transfer drivers, taking people to and from hospital for appointments
And there are fully trained paramedics who drive ambulances
So no, Iam not trying to hit a nerve, and the poster has kindly answered my question
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Thanks..
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
And I am incredibly proud of what I do, without us, many patients would not get to appointments or treatment. I am still part on the Ambulance Service but reading some of the comments recently on social media I’m not really sure I want to progress my career towards CCA or Para….Nori1958 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:30 pmGive over, Iam asking a genuine question, to find out who it is that's going on strike
There are people employed as patient transfer drivers, taking people to and from hospital for appointments
And there are fully trained paramedics who drive ambulances
So no, Iam not trying to hit a nerve, and the poster has kindly answered my question
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
And so you should be. Several elderly relatives relied on you guys for many years, and would have been lost without the service, don't do yourself down, and ignore social media.ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:34 pmAnd I am incredibly proud of what I do, without us, many patients would not get to appointments or treatment. I am still part on the Ambulance Service but reading some of the comments recently on social media I’m not really sure I want to progress my career towards CCA or Para….
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
I’m sure the lads and lasses on circa £22k-£27k a year following their 3.75% pay rise will be delighted to lose their leave (again) and step in for those on strike.claret2018 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:25 pmObvious trolling aside, there’s mileage in the idea of getting the military to help out in understaffed domestic projects. I’m surprised we don’t see it more often.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Patient Transport is a vital component in the NHS infrastructure.
Five years ago I had an ultrasound scan in Newcastle. They don"t have the equipment in Cumbria. I couldn't drive myself because sedation was compulsory. The late mrs lakedistrict wasn't well enough to drive me. Ok, I could probably have got a friend to drive me, but it's a 170 mile round trip so it's a lot to ask.
I used Patient Transport, and was very grateful for it.
So, thanks ClaretDiver, and all your colleagues. You do a great job.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
They should join a unionbox_of_frogs wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:14 pmI’m sure the lads and lasses on circa £22k-£27k a year following their 3.75% pay rise will be delighted to lose their leave (again) and step in for those on strike.
Re: Railway workers' pay offer
And here is the problem (and this is not aimed at you claret2018) but wages in certain sectors have got out of hand. People these days don't think that £50k is a huge salary. Sorry but in my book £50k is massive. Me and the missus have 2 works pensions and 2 state pensions and £50k is more than all 4 of them added together.claret2018 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:35 amWhat’s wrong with paying an experienced senior nurse over £50k? It’s not a huge salary at all.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Thank you LDC! Hope all is well!lakedistrictclaret wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:32 pmPatient Transport is a vital component in the NHS infrastructure.
Five years ago I had an ultrasound scan in Newcastle. They don"t have the equipment in Cumbria. I couldn't drive myself because sedation was compulsory. The late mrs lakedistrict wasn't well enough to drive me. Ok, I could probably have got a friend to drive me, but it's a 170 mile round trip so it's a lot to ask.
I used Patient Transport, and was very grateful for it.
So, thanks ClaretDiver, and all your colleagues. You do a great job.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
I do wonder what jobs people have when they don't think 50k is a huge amountFirthy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:57 pmAnd here is the problem (and this is not aimed at you claret2018) but wages in certain sectors have got out of hand. People these days don't think that £50k is a huge salary. Sorry but in my book £50k is massive. Me and the missus have 2 works pensions and 2 state pensions and £50k is more than all 4 of them added together.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Have you thought of changing your user name to ClaretDriver?
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
This is the problem with workers in the U.K. £50k 20 years would have been a high wage, now it’s not. Wages in this country have been stagnating for well over a decade now and when people try and do something about it they get called greedy and sniped at.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:39 pmHave you thought of changing your user name to ClaretDriver?
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
It's quite a way above the average salary, so I guess a lot of workers will see it as a huge amountclaret2018 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:50 pmThis is the problem with workers in the U.K. £50k 20 years would have been a high wage, now it’s not. Wages in this country have been stagnating for well over a decade now and when people try and do something about it they get called greedy and sniped at.
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Re: Railway workers' pay offer
Thanks CD. I had a reoccurence of my 2009 cancer but a brutal combination of chemotherapy and radiotherapy zapped it.
I have an annual endoscopy now. No problems so far!
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