Nick Pope

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Nick Pope

Post by No Ney Never » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:15 pm

If his foot work was more controlled and 'better', surely he would be considered as one of the world's best goalies?

P.S. asking as an England fan, but to be fair, still gutted he moved on.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by mdd2 » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:24 pm

If Muric could keep goal like Nick and distribute like himself he too would be a world beater
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Casper » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:34 pm

Pickford is a better keeper than Pope , I know it’s hard to accept for many on here .
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by bobinho » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:37 pm

Thats because there's a tiny flaw in your statement Casper... it's ********.
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:42 pm

Popes ball control and passing is fine, it always has been, the stats even back that up

The problem is there are numerous fans on here who don't look at the actual stats and proceed to claim Pope can't pass a ball with his feet.

Pickford rarely let's England down, he's just gash at Everton but he's also the victim of having numerous managers at Everton who've all failed to have a clue.
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Zlatan » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:44 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:42 pm
The problem is there are numerous fans on here who don't look at the actual stats and proceed to claim Pope can't pass a ball with his feet.
There was/still is a media narrative to that effect and it boils my p!ss if I’m honest

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by 4midable » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:45 pm

Casper wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:34 pm
Pickford is a better keeper than Pope , I know it’s hard to accept for many on here .
Isnt

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by RVclaret » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:45 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:42 pm
Popes ball control and passing is fine, it always has been, the stats even back that up

The problem is there are numerous fans on here who don't look at the actual stats and proceed to claim Pope can't pass a ball with his feet.

Pickford rarely let's England down, he's just gash at Everton but he's also the victim of having numerous managers at Everton who've all failed to have a clue.
Pope is not good enough with his feet for a possession based team. If he was, he’d have been snapped up by a top team a while back. If you can’t see or understand that then fair enough.

Pickford also is not ‘gash’ at Everton, they would be have been relegated without him last season, he was outstanding.
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:47 pm

You don't have to look at the stats to know that Pope isn't as good as Pickford with the ball at his feet.
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Bosscat » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:48 pm

Casper wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:34 pm
Pickford is a sh!t keeper, I know , & it’s easy to accept for many on here .
Have corrected it for you Casper 😉
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Casper » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:49 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:42 pm
Popes ball control and passing is fine, it always has been, the stats even back that up

The problem is there are numerous fans on here who don't look at the actual stats and proceed to claim Pope can't pass a ball with his feet.

Pickford rarely let's England down, he's just gash at Everton but he's also the victim of having numerous managers at Everton who've all failed to have a clue.
He kept Everton up last season
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by warksclaret » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:05 pm

Casper wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:34 pm
Pickford is a better keeper than Pope , I know it’s hard to accept for many on here .
And highly unlikely to be replaced. He has plenty of credit in the bank with Southgate. He may have had some poor games at Everton but with England has consistently been outstanding

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by dougcollins » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:06 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:45 pm
Pope is not good enough with his feet for a possession based team. If he was, he’d have been snapped up by a top team a while back. If you can’t see or understand that then fair enough.

Pickford also is not ‘gash’ at Everton, they would be have been relegated without him last season, he was outstanding.
Aye, Newcastle are poor aren't they.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:07 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:45 pm
Pope is not good enough with his feet for a possession based team. If he was, he’d have been snapped up by a top team a while back. If you can’t see or understand that then fair enough.

Pickford also is not ‘gash’ at Everton, they would be have been relegated without him last season, he was outstanding.
Pope is playing for a team that's 3rd in the Premier league. Pickford has a good chance of getting relegated.
It's fine to have an opinion on either keeper but I wouldn't use which club they play for as the measuring stick.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:09 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:07 pm
Pope is playing for a team that's 3rd in the Premier league. Pickford has a good chance of getting relegated.
It's fine to have an opinion on either keeper but I wouldn't use which club they play for as the measuring stick.
That's right. But being in a poor team gives the keeper better match practice.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by what_no_pies » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:12 pm

Pope is one of my all time favourite Clarets but has a definite weakness in his game and that is his kicking. A blind man on a galloping horse could see it.

Pickford isn't as good as keeping the ball out of the net as Pope but has far superior distribution.

Pope vs Pickford could be debated all day long but for me Pope is the better keeper but Pickford rightly keeps the England shirt given he's NEVER let England down over a sustained period. If he does fall off that level Pope should be straight in.

Pope was shortlised for POTY in the PL not all that long ago so as the only shortlised GK was presumably the outstanding keeper in the league over that whole season. I doubt Pickford would have made the top 5 keeper in the PL many times, if ever, nevetmind the best of the lot. Pope also currently on for Golden Glove which he almost won with us on another occassion. Another accomplishment I suspect Pickford won't have been close to.
Last edited by what_no_pies on Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:13 pm

I would have Pope for club football and Pickford for Tournament football.
You have to have the arrogance that Pickford does for the very top level.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by dougcollins » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:16 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:13 pm
I would have Pope for club football and Pickford for Tournament football.
You have to have the arrogance that Pickford does for the very top level.
Bonkers, actually.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:18 pm

dougcollins wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:16 pm
Bonkers, actually.
What is?

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:23 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:45 pm
Pope is not good enough with his feet for a possession based team. If he was, he’d have been snapped up by a top team a while back. If you can’t see or understand that then fair enough.

Pickford also is not ‘gash’ at Everton, they would be have been relegated without him last season, he was outstanding.
Pope does fine with his feet, always has done, but you won't see it because that's your choice not to see it.

Stats are factual, your opinion is just that.
That's why Pope has gone to a team that plays it out more than we did

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by taio » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:26 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:42 pm
Popes ball control and passing is fine, it always has been, the stats even back that up

The problem is there are numerous fans on here who don't look at the actual stats and proceed to claim Pope can't pass a ball with his feet.

Pickford rarely let's England down, he's just gash at Everton but he's also the victim of having numerous managers at Everton who've all failed to have a clue.
Pope with his feet is by far his biggest, and possibly only, weakness such is his immense strength with all other aspects, especially shot-stopping and handling and command of his six yard box. Numerous fans will recognise this from watching him week in and week out for us, without the need to look at the stats. Perhaps best described as him looking awkward with the ball at his feet. Outstanding for us nonetheless.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:27 pm

Casper wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:49 pm
He kept Everton up last season
They stayed up by the skin of their teeth, that wasn't all down to Pickford.
The whole team has been under performing for a few seasons prior to this one and this one isn't much better despite them getting better CBs in.
If they stay up again by the skin of their teeth are you going to attribute that to Pickford again?

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by dougcollins » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:29 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:18 pm
What is?
The man. Pickford. Saw him out in S'land.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by AfloatinClaret » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:29 pm

4midable wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:45 pm
Isnt
I suppose it is that time of the year:
Oh yes he is!
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Bosscat » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:32 pm

He's behind you

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:34 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:07 pm
Pope is playing for a team that's 3rd in the Premier league. Pickford has a good chance of getting relegated.
It's fine to have an opinion on either keeper but I wouldn't use which club they play for as the measuring stick.
That's right. But being in a poor team gives the keeper better match practice.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:36 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:23 pm
Pope does fine with his feet, always has done, but you won't see it because that's your choice not to see it.

Stats are factual, your opinion is just that.
That's why Pope has gone to a team that plays it out more than we did
He couldn't have gone to a team that did it less.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:38 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:23 pm
Pope does fine with his feet, always has done, but you won't see it because that's your choice not to see it.

Stats are factual, your opinion is just that.
That's why Pope has gone to a team that plays it out more than we did
Pope really doesn’t do fine with his feet. Of course he can play simple 10 yard passes, which footballer can’t. But his long kicking is wayward, as in, the rest of the team don’t know which direction the ball will be played, and his biggest weaknesses are his ball control and composure on the ball.

This prevents Pope from playing for one of the very top teams and is ultimately why he is down the pecking order at England, because these teams would have to completely transform their style of play to accommodate him. He wouldn’t fit in Burnley’s current system for the same reason.
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by No Ney Never » Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:06 pm

Hypothetical I know, but had Pope stayed, would VK have still brought Muric in?

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:09 pm

No Ney Never wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:06 pm
Hypothetical I know, but had Pope stayed, would VK have still brought Muric in?
I doubt it.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by AlargeClaret » Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:12 pm

Pope’s feet are ok ,though his control isn’t great for a modern keeper . Ultimately the “ crap feet” myth was bourne out after 2 separate “ feet howlers “ while playing for Eng . I watched Heaton, Pope and Hart do keepy ups back and forward and all 3 were foot perfect . Pope’s a likeable fella and a brilliant keeper , delighted for him at Newc .
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Stayingup » Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:50 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:45 pm
Pope is not good enough with his feet for a possession based team. If he was, he’d have been snapped up by a top team a while back. If you can’t see or understand that then fair enough.

Pickford also is not ‘gash’ at Everton, they would be have been relegated without him last season, he was outstanding.
Pope is at a top team. Pickford isn't. Check the table

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Big Vinny K » Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:09 pm

Pickford is bang average for Everton. He costs them half a dozen goals at least every season.
But for England he has been good.
Pope is outstanding for his clubs. Burnley and Newcastle and all the stats prove he has been consistently better than Pickford in the Premier League. And even putting stats to one side your eyes tell you that !!

But for England Pope has had little or no opportunity to prove himself and a big part of the reason for that is because Pickford has done so well.

It’s as simple as that

(And Arsenal fans will no doubt think the same about Ramsdale)

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by claret2018 » Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:10 pm

Pickford has the International experience that Pope lacks. The pressure of playing knock out football for England can’t be underestimated

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by superdimitri » Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:54 am

Pope's kicking is terrible. His control and passing is poor, even compared to your average keeper. He's also the oldest keeper in the squad.

Honestly though in tournament football where good saves win crunch games I'd play him despite this. I don't think we are good enough to control games in possession anyway and will do best countering better teams.

We couldn't even control the game vs Senegal until we scored out of the blue.

But Southgate picks Pickford because he's been excellent for England.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Spijed » Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:37 am

claret2018 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:10 pm
Pickford has the International experience that Pope lacks. The pressure of playing knock out football for England can’t be underestimated
And yet England only beat Senegal once thry started to play a more direct game upfield.

It clearly wasn't working when Pickford was playing out from the back.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by RVclaret » Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:41 am

Big Vinny K wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:09 pm
Pickford is bang average for Everton. He costs them half a dozen goals at least every season.
But for England he has been good.
Pope is outstanding for his clubs. Burnley and Newcastle and all the stats prove he has been consistently better than Pickford in the Premier League. And even putting stats to one side your eyes tell you that !!

But for England Pope has had little or no opportunity to prove himself and a big part of the reason for that is because Pickford has done so well.

It’s as simple as that

(And Arsenal fans will no doubt think the same about Ramsdale)
Pope played the recent nations league and friendly games and was pretty poor tbh. Kicking was all over the place and then made a huge mistake against Germany which we conceded from.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:58 am

RVclaret wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:41 am
Pope played the recent nations league and friendly games and was pretty poor tbh. Kicking was all over the place and then made a huge mistake against Germany which we conceded from.
Then Pickford made the same mistake a week later against Spurs and another conceding a penalty with his head in the same game.

No keeper is faultless.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by claret2018 » Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:59 am

RVclaret wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:41 am
Pope played the recent nations league and friendly games and was pretty poor tbh. Kicking was all over the place and then made a huge mistake against Germany which we conceded from.
Exactly- he seemed to bottle it when playing for England which is the worst thing you can do.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by RVclaret » Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:20 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:58 am
Then Pickford made the same mistake a week later against Spurs and another conceding a penalty with his head in the same game.

No keeper is faultless.
Oh completely agree, though Pickford has been pretty faultless for England over the years and gives more confidence with the ball at his feet.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by martin_p » Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:28 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:38 pm
Pope really doesn’t do fine with his feet. Of course he can play simple 10 yard passes, which footballer can’t. But his long kicking is wayward, as in, the rest of the team don’t know which direction the ball will be played, and his biggest weaknesses are his ball control and composure on the ball.

This prevents Pope from playing for one of the very top teams and is ultimately why he is down the pecking order at England, because these teams would have to completely transform their style of play to accommodate him. He wouldn’t fit in Burnley’s current system for the same reason.
So for balance, what is preventing Pickford playing for one of the very top teams?

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by martin_p » Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:31 am

Pickford is playing for England for the same reason Harry Maguire is, form for England. And it’s a fair enough reason to be honest, if players aren’t letting you down why drop them. Obviously the fact there’s only one keeper in a team and they only ever get substituted if they’re injured makes it doubly difficult to break through.
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by AlargeClaret » Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:36 am

Spijed wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:37 am
And yet England only beat Senegal once thry started to play a more direct game upfield.

It clearly wasn't working when Pickford was playing out from the back.
That’s a good point , though Pickford will be absolutely playing under instruction if playing from the back . Interestingly I noticed him old skool long kicking his goal kicks vs USA

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by RVclaret » Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:36 am

martin_p wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:28 am
So for balance, what is preventing Pickford playing for one of the very top teams?
Reports suggesting both Chelsea and United could be ready to make a move.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Big Vinny K » Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:48 am

RVclaret wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:41 am
Pope played the recent nations league and friendly games and was pretty poor tbh. Kicking was all over the place and then made a huge mistake against Germany which we conceded from.
Yep I know he made a big mistake. I don’t think his kicking was all over the place - he did look nervous a couple of times I admit but that’s pretty much the only game he has played for England where a mistake has led to a goal. Even if he would not have made that mistake and even if had had a fantastic game Pickford would have played in World Cup. And I get why.
None of the above makes Pope IMHO a better keeper than Pickford. Week in week our Pope plays better than him, makes better and more crucial saves, makes far less mistakes, concedes less goals, and crucially for relieving pressure on his defence catches the ball from crosses.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:55 am

RVclaret wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:20 am
Oh completely agree, though Pickford has been pretty faultless for England over the years and gives more confidence with the ball at his feet.
Pickford has been very good for England but his passing skills are way overrated.
He's alright with the ball, nothing more.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:18 am

martin_p wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:28 am
So for balance, what is preventing Pickford playing for one of the very top teams?
I don't know to be honest, my comments were about Nick Pope and nothing to do with Pickford. But I don't think there's anything particularly preventing Pickford from playing for one of the very top teams. He's not as good as Allison or Ederson so he wouldn't get in those teams, I would have thought he could easily play for the likes of Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd etc, although his erratic nature may put some of those clubs off.

But as this discussion is about Pope, do you really not think his footwork would prevent him from playing for Manchester City, for example?

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:20 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:55 am
Pickford has been very good for England but his passing skills are way overrated.
He's alright with the ball, nothing more.
This isn't just about passing, it's about being confident with the ball at your feet. Pickford's distribution is ok, it's not brilliant, but it's a lot better than Pope's for example. But Pickford has much better footwork, composure and confidence to receive the ball in tight situations.

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Re: Nick Pope

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:20 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:55 am
Pickford has been very good for England but his passing skills are way overrated.
He's alright with the ball, nothing more.
Passing skills are only part of it.
For me Pope's real difficulty is how he receives the ball.

Targetman
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Re: Nick Pope

Post by Targetman » Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:21 am

RVclaret wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:36 am
Reports suggesting both Chelsea and United could be ready to make a move.
There are also reports that Belgium could be ready to make a move for Vincent Kompany!

These type of rumours are usually made by lazy journalists looking for online clicks which are believed by some people without question, and then repeated on social media as fact.

Lets wait and see if Chelsea, United or indeed Belgium do actually make a move.

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