CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:53 am

Think you’re underestimating just how much pressing Brownhill gets through a game

I think a lot of people underestimate just how much McNeil did for us defensively.

Last season he was second in pressures and pretty high up in blocks, tackles and interceptions for us. For someone who was viewed as a creative player he got through a lot of defensive work.

thomaspaine wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:45 am

No matter how many times you say that Dwight is a poor player it won’t mean that he is . Of course he’s not a ‘ poor player ‘ . He’s played at a young age for two struggling teams in a very difficult division .Granted with hindsight his transfer to Everton for good money was a good deal for Burnley .

Yeah, I’ll qualify my comments a little bit in that I don’t agree Dwight is a bad player by any stretch. One of a number of decent players that have done well well playing in the ‘framework’ Dyche mapped out.

gtclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:41 am

IMO Too one footed and too slow. You can't do anything about lack of pace, but the extreme inability to use his right foot could have been dealt with in his development. Being competent with his right foot would have made him a completely different player. Too late now, a potential talent wasted

It doesn't matter how many times you say this, McNeil's fans on here won't listen and continue to make excuses for him.
One useful aspect of this thread is it's revealed how many haven't a clue what they're talking about.

150 PL appearances at 23years old doesn't describe a poor player. Perhaps at present a decent player not playing at his best

Making him into an auxiliary full back was probably the worst decision that was made last season. If they had just had him on the left putting in crosses we would have got a lot more out of him. Playing a completely left footed player on the right was also a farce.

His biggest fault was going to Everton

The most odious fan base in football they have a minority who are decent I’ve travelled away to England games with them and even they their support is made up of arseholes

I have to say that getting a fortune for McNeil when he hadn’t played well for some time and reinvesting that in the players we have procured for his price tag alone and leaving the rest to service our debt was a fantastic bit of business for all involved.

We have secured the immediate future of our club with some fantastic players and hopefully McNeil will fulfil his potential either at Everton or another club should he move. Everyone’s a winner.

I have no ill feeling to him whatsoever. Great servant as was Pope, Tarky and Mee

An unused sub today, can't see him starting for Everton ever again to be honest. Tarkowski on the other hand was simply outstanding today at the heart of Everton's defence, an absolute monster of a defender.

How Maguire keeps him out of the England team is beyond me.

dermotdermot wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:01 pm

How Maguire keeps him out of the England team is beyond me.

That’s why England don’t win competitions imo

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:32 pm

150 PL appearances at 23years old doesn't describe a poor player. Perhaps at present a decent player not playing at his best

At 23 he should be tearing teams apart,I know it’s a lower level,but I can’t imaging doing what Benson,or Zaroury do week in week out,too one footed ,and easier to contain than these two.

Carwin261 wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:17 pm

At 23 he should be tearing teams apart,I know it’s a lower level,but I can’t imaging doing what Benson,or Zaroury do week in week out,too one footed ,and easier to contain than these two.

Off course Dwight would be tearing this league up. Have you seen the quality of this division?

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:10 pm

That’s why England don’t win competitions imo

Southgate. Still the Dyche mentality in place.
I had a conversation with Mr Southgate about Pope (when he had by far the best PL stats of any English keeper) and despite being charming, erudite, and extremely patient, it was evident - reading between the lines-that the Dyche factor was keeping Burnley players out of the England XI.

He’s a totally different player to Benson and Zaroury for me.

I’d imagine his best position would be somewhere central due to passing range which we never used to our full advantage.

dermotdermot wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:01 pm

How Maguire keeps him out of the England team is beyond me.

Said it all season, Tarks looks as immense for Everton as he did for us. Even with the Claret tinted specs off now, he's way above Mings and Coady but never gets a look in for England. He's probably past caring but it's a shame.

dermotdermot wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:01 pm

How Maguire keeps him out of the England team is beyond me.

To be fair Maguire was okay at the World Cup and I admire Southgates loyalty but my God there should be a place for JT even alongside Harry if need be, he'd certainly learn a thing or two about defending from probably Burnley's greatest ever centre half.

Are people seriously still debating Tarks for the england team.

He’s a good CB but knowhere near good enough to start for England

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:34 pm

Are people seriously still debating Tarks for the england team.

He’s a good CB but knowhere near good enough to start for England

Did you see him today?

equinox wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:28 pm

To be fair Maguire was okay at the World Cup and I admire Southgates loyalty but my God there should be a place for JT even alongside Harry if need be, he'd certainly learn a thing or two about defending from probably Burnley's greatest ever centre half.

“Burnley’s greatest ever centre half”???

You may be overstating things slightly….he’s up there but Jimmy Adamson and Tommy Boyle are just ever so possibly above him.

BurnleyPaul wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:35 pm

“Burnley’s greatest ever centre half”???

You may be overstating things slightly….he’s up there but Jimmy Adamson and Tommy Boyle are just ever so possibly above him.

Pity Jimmy wasn’t a centre half,Cummings was centre half ,Jimmy was RH,& Miller LH.

Carwin261 wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:17 pm

At 23 he should be tearing teams apart,I know it’s a lower level,but I can’t imaging doing what Benson,or Zaroury do week in week out,too one footed ,and easier to contain than these two.

Kind of irrelevant to the point I was making.
in my opinion he was given too much to do too soon.
Is he better than Zaroury or Benson? Who knows, I don't.

equinox wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:14 pm

An unused sub today, can't see him starting for Everton ever again to be honest. Tarkowski on the other hand was simply outstanding today at the heart of Everton's defence, an absolute monster of a defender.

Remarkably prescient.

Really poor again though.

Comments on Twitter aren’t kind to Dwight tonight.

That one good season he had with us looks like it was a fluke.

Dyche will be sat in the stand ready for the interview after the game.

A confidence player going to a toxic environment was never going to end well.

Flying Without Ings wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:08 pm

A confidence player going to a toxic environment was never going to end well.

I just posted on the days match thread, Too many shrinking violets in this Everton team, and sadly Dwight is one of them. As you say, a confidence player, who was always looking doomed at Everton.

Flying Without Ings wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:08 pm

A confidence player going to a toxic environment was never going to end well.

And then he went to Everton!!

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:11 pm

And then he went to Everton!!

tut-tut D_A, he never suffered a toxic environment at TM

Struggling to think of a worse midfield than Tom Davies, Iwobi and Gueye.
Just play 442 and avoid CM like we used to.

I said it at the time but I think McNeil should've gone to Germany or similar if the opportunity was available to him. A fresh start, where he could develop tactically and physically. Everton looked a bad move from the beginning. Loan to Celtic, back in the Championship in a couple of years.

Hopefully the McNeil supporters club will soon realise that he just isn’t that good and that Dyche got the most out of him.

He will be a mid table-low end championship player in a season or two

He desperately needed a season in the championship in my opinion. Get some goals and assists. Sadly, I don’t think he will ever be a consistent Premier League player.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:20 pm

Hopefully the McNeil supporters club will soon realise that he just isn’t that good and that Dyche got the most out of him.

He will be a mid table-low end championship player in a season or two

Hopefully he will find the right environment and fulfil his potential. Not sure why people would want a home grown product to fail after he played a large part in extending our stay in the top league.

I suspect Everton may well get relegated this season. They look woefully short of quality all over the pitch and as for Lampard…….
The only benefit Tarks and Dwight got from going there was a considerable pay rise!

Stevie Morgan wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:32 pm

Hopefully he will find the right environment and fulfil his potential. Not sure why people would want a home grown product to fail after he played a large part in extending our stay in the top league.

He’s already fulfilled his potential - that’s the point

I thought he was poor and grew sick of watching him switch off in key moments every game.

Stevie Morgan wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:32 pm

Hopefully he will find the right environment and fulfil his potential. Not sure why people would want a home grown product to fail after he played a large part in extending our stay in the top league.

Indeed.

As per my thread opening post on this, I just find it quite sad really that he’s getting the kind of stick he is at Everton. He has a lot of ability but, for whatever reason, he’s been a shadow of the player that we had our hands those first two seasons. He might have to take a step back to find himself again, which is what I was excited about for him with us in this league.

jedi_master wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:59 pm

Indeed.

As per my thread opening post on this, I just find it quite sad really that he’s getting the kind of stick he is at Everton. He has a lot of ability but, for whatever reason, he’s been a shadow of the player that we had our hands those first two seasons. He might have to take a step back to find himself again, which is what I was excited about for him with us in this league.

His ability is his left foot crosses

You need a lot more to be a PL player, it really is that simple.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:02 pm

His ability is his left foot crosses

You need a lot more to be a PL player, it really is that simple.

A game of opinions but this is balls in my view. He beat players for fun when he came in to the team and had a good passing range. I loved watching him. For whatever reason, he's not played as well recently, but sure he will come good again.

I don’t agree with all the stick Dwights getting here.

He done really well for us. His form last season declined massively but there were several factors for that, being the team wasn’t performing at all, he was being asked to play a very defensive role and had the shackles on, he was usually double marked as he was our only outlet in most games. The lad just got ground down and lost all confidence.

Yes he is very 1 footed but he has reasonable pace, can carry the ball well and has a wicked cross. He would have excelled in the championship this season. However £20m was a nice amount to sell him for.

Stevie Morgan wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:06 pm

A game of opinions but this is balls in my view. He beat players for fun when he came in to the team and had a good passing range. I loved watching him. For whatever reason, he's not played as well recently, but sure he will come good again.

I don’t think he quite beat players for fun as you make oht but yeah he would try to take his man on and have a go…. However, this was when he was somewhat of an unknown quantity.

Quickly been sussed out and gotten worse every season.

In old threads from 4 years ago or so I questioned his mentality to be a top player - I don’t think he has it

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:20 pm

Hopefully the McNeil supporters club will soon realise that he just isn’t that good and that Dyche got the most out of him.

He will be a mid table-low end championship player in a season or two

I get the impression some on here really have no idea how vast the gap in ability between the Championship and PL really is.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:10 pm

I don’t think he quite beat players for fun as you make oht but yeah he would try to take his man on and have a go…. However, this was when he was somewhat of an unknown quantity.

Quickly been sussed out and gotten worse every season.

In old threads from 4 years ago or so I questioned his mentality to be a top player - I don’t think he has it

What makes you think any of our current players are any better?

Just seen the highlights

If Everton think their problems can be laid at the door of McNeil then they are living in cloud cuckoo land

Our former imperious defensive colossus not covering himself in glory either, but some terrible defending by Everton for all four goals

Spijed wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:12 pm

I get the impression some on here really have no idea how vast the gap in ability between the Championship and PL really is.

Under no illusions at all to be honest - but there’s countless examples of standout Championship players cutting it in the Prem.

As for the other point - in terms of wide players the ability to use both feet whilst:

controlling the ball, dribbling with the ball, passing the ball, crossing the ball and shooting…

As well as the ability to dip a shoulder and go either way around a fullback.

One of the other biggest attributes I love is their ability to keep going when things aren’t necessarily going their way, to keep showing for the ball and keeping their head up - keep trying stuff instead of looking for a pass back to the left back or inside to a midfielder.

Fully aware that our current shape and league we’re playing in is different but I don’t think McNeil could do what our players do now.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:12 pm

I get the impression some on here really have no idea how vast the gap in ability between the Championship and PL really is.

I think Saturday will give us a better idea as to where we would stand in comparison to the 'ordinary' PL teams and squads than the game at Old Trafford did. The top teams have to have a bit of an off day for the rest to beat them but Bournemouth rather less so.

Poor sod is getting absolutely slaughtered,toxic fans.

Shite Mcneil

He’s their new fall guy, even though they’ve been **** for ages and continue to be ****.

Said at the time, awful move for him. He’s a confidence player who needs support and he went to a toxic club with a toxic fanbase. Forget all the flares nonsense, those fans last season (and now this) were awful - constant moans, groans, boos. I’d have loved to have kept him and I think VK would have too. He’d have scored and assisted for fun at this level and would’ve really benefitted from this current style of play. Think he was badly advised and I wonder what the future holds.