Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

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beeholeclaret
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by beeholeclaret » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:13 am

TheOriginalLongsider wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:53 am
Just thinking back. Wasn’t Dyche an underwhelming appointment at the time?
Think you’re right - Dyche was relatively unknown (apart from his penalty and cup exploits with Chesterfield).

Although we were Premier League apart from the 5 months of that season we had been out of the top division for 33 years and prior to the Wembley playoff rumour had it that we were totally skint.

People on here making out that we should’ve been attracting the managers in football is a bit naive.

taffy
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by taffy » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:15 am

Jimmy Mullen was another under whelming appointment at the time,he was Frank Casper assistant and only supposed to be caretaker while we found another manager

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:16 am

TheOriginalLongsider wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:53 am
Just thinking back. Wasn’t Dyche an underwhelming appointment at the time?
Yeah he was, relatively unknown still back then, so we had no idea what we were going to get

I think we were linked with another manager at the time, a slightly bigger name so to speak.

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by claretburns » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:31 am

jedi_master wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:56 am
It sounds like even he knows he didn’t win over the squad and I think the reason for that is that they were an experienced group who probably felt much the same as the fans when it was announced (I.e, “Laws? Really?”). He was on a hiding to nothing really.
When Laws came in he couldn't believe the attitude and professionalism of the players after they had been able to do whatever they pleased for 2/3 years under Coyle.

Laws tried to bring that professionalism and structure into the squad and the "experienced" players (probably easy to guess who) rebelled against it.

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by SammyBoy » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:40 am

Dyche was underwhelming but he was young and appeared to have done alright at Watford, there was potential. With Laws I think we knew exactly what he was all about and it pretty much went as we thought.
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Swizzlestick » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:42 am

Odd how such badly managed set of unprofessional players managed to achieve promotion to the Premier League. In fact, that team had some of the most professional players ever to pull on a claret and blue shirt - Alexander, Duff, Caldwell, Carlisle etc
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Fretters » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:07 am

claretburns wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:27 am
Not much said about his playing career at Burnley, focused his playing career at Nottm Forest with Clough (some great stories).

For his management career, when at Sheff Wed, he was struggling with money from the chairman so did a deal with Roy Keane at Sunderland for a player where Roy/Sunderland agreed to pay some of the player wages but said to Laws I expect a favour back in future.

Fast forward to Burnley, Keane, now at Ipswich, called Laws and said I want your left back, Laws replied stating Fox was injured and the only fit senior left back was Stephen Jordan so I can't do it, Keane not caring said I want Jordan I did you a favour I expect one back, Laws refused, Keane put phone down and the next game they played against each other Laws brought it up and Keane said "Favour for a favour, absolute disgrace" and never spoke to him again.

Brendan Flood "ran" Burnley, tried appointing Laws before Coyle and offered Sheff Wed £400,000 for him.

Coyle left for Bolton, Brendan rang Laws and asked for a chat, due to us being Premier League and having to overachieve with our budget, Laws apparently had the best pound for point ratio in Championship when at Sheff Wed and this is what attracted us to Laws.

A very tough job at Burnley, played Sunderland away and Bruce asked Laws his budget, Laws said £14,000,000, and Bruce laughed saying "you have no chance, I have £39,000,000 at Sunderland and we're bottom 3, you have no chance with Burnley".

Players were extremely hurt that Coyle had left and had the confidence/belief sucked out of them after Coyle left.

The board wouldn't increase the budget because "We have beaten Man Utd at home so we have a team to survive, you don't need anymore money". (That quote was from Brendan Flood).

Had a massive mental fight with the players who wanted to play open similar to Coyle but Laws wanted to tighten the team up and be more defensive and players wouldn't do it and so it was somewhere inbetween and a mismatch.

Fans loved the attacking football but didn't like the style under Laws and that is why we turned on him.

Chairman and board didn't want to rip the team apart for Premier League and wanted to stay loyal to the players who got us promoted, Laws didn't win over the players apart from 3 or 4.

Kevin McDonald had a nightmare first half v Man City, brought him off at half time, Laws presumes he has gone into the stands and gets told he has gone the pub to see his dad. Outside looking in the damage this did was show that the players didn't respect Laws.

Defining game was Wigan away, 0-0 we had a chance hit the side netting, they go up other end and score and we lose 1-0. If we had beaten Wigan we'd have survived.

Back in Championship team has been rebuilt and fans back on board with Laws, we went to Barnsley and won, Laws walking to tunnel towards the Burnley fans and all fans booing and shouting obscenities. Text from chairman, "Great result, we're all behind you". Play Scunthorpe and lose and he is sacked, Laws reply was "Chairman you do realise we haven't lost two games in a row this season?" Chairman, "No, but we have made our decision".

Just felt that the manager who followed Coyle was not going to have a good time and would struggle.
I'm struggling to find the podcast on Spotify or YouTube. Do they have a paid subscriber service where you can access new ones earlier, or something?

Socrates
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Socrates » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:08 am

Always felt Laws was a stranger to the truth when talking about Burnley.

He was properly chippy talking about us when he was Scunthorpe manager on a number of occasions. It seemed to me he felt like he should have been our manager a long time ago.

He was utterly unsuited to the job. That was apparent before he’d even got it. It was entirely predictable what happened. Appoint a mid Championship level manager and you’ll end up mid Championship. And that’s what happened.

Amazed he’s still talking about it to be honest.
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Big Vinny K
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Big Vinny K » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:46 am

Socrates wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:08 am
Always felt Laws was a stranger to the truth when talking about Burnley.

He was properly chippy talking about us when he was Scunthorpe manager on a number of occasions. It seemed to me he felt like he should have been our manager a long time ago.

He was utterly unsuited to the job. That was apparent before he’d even got it. It was entirely predictable what happened. Appoint a mid Championship level manager and you’ll end up mid Championship. And that’s what happened.

Amazed he’s still talking about it to be honest.
Exactly this.
The centre back he signed from Stoke for a not insignificant amount of money summed up how far out of his depth he was. Stoke totally had our pants down on a player who was not in their team. That signing and what we paid for the lad made no sense and it was either complete incompetence from Laws or something fishy went on between the 2 managers (which would not surprise me at all)

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by claretburns » Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:39 pm

Fretters wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:07 am
I'm struggling to find the podcast on Spotify or YouTube. Do they have a paid subscriber service where you can access new ones earlier, or something?
They do have a paid subscriber channel where some interviews are only posted on their and not for the wider public, I listen to each release they do and pay £1.99 per month so it isn't bad.

This Brian Laws podcast has just been released so not sure if it will stay for paid subscribers only or made public in the next few days.

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Hipper » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:27 pm

Swizzlestick wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:42 am
Odd how such badly managed set of unprofessional players managed to achieve promotion to the Premier League. In fact, that team had some of the most professional players ever to pull on a claret and blue shirt - Alexander, Duff, Caldwell, Carlisle etc
How do you know this? Carlisle didn't sound very professional - drink, treatment of Elliott....

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by ClaretPete001 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:37 pm

As other have said Laws came in on the back of a bad experience at Sheff Wed.

We'd lost the early season momentum in the PL, then the manager and, finally, the coaching team.

Laws came in and seemed quite introverted and downbeat. The whole club just seemed to lose energy and belief...

Poor decision to recruit him. He was the wrong man for the job at the time and consequently he had little chance of success.

helmclaret
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by helmclaret » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:40 pm

Robbie Blake said on a podcast Laws couldn’t decide between him and Eagles as to who would play on the left. So in 11 a side practice games he would play both of them on the same team 12 v 11…

Robbie also said his assistant Wilcox admitted to not having a clue about the Premier League or what to expect.

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by jrgbfc » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:44 pm

claretburns wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:31 am
When Laws came in he couldn't believe the attitude and professionalism of the players after they had been able to do whatever they pleased for 2/3 years under Coyle.

Laws tried to bring that professionalism and structure into the squad and the "experienced" players (probably easy to guess who) rebelled against it.
Clark Carlisle basically admitted as much in his book.

MACCA
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by MACCA » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:46 pm

Anyone know where we can skip to to hear the Burnley stuff?

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Swizzlestick » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:48 pm

Hipper wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:27 pm
How do you know this? Carlisle didn't sound very professional - drink, treatment of Elliott....
His drink problems are well documented and ally with his mental health issues, but I was more referring to on the pitch - he must have been displaying at least some of the requisite qualities considering he captained us. The Elliott incidents were unfortunate, but he admitted that himself - not defending him, but I imagine there are many others who made similar comments in a dressing room and haven’t owned up to it.

Raconteur
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Raconteur » Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:14 pm

helmclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:40 pm
Robbie Blake said on a podcast Laws couldn’t decide between him and Eagles as to who would play on the left. So in 11 a side practice games he would play both of them on the same team 12 v 11…

Robbie also said his assistant Wilcox admitted to not having a clue about the Premier League or what to expect.
I watched the Robbie episode. He also mentioned the Man City game on the podcast. Robbie said that when they got in the changing room at half time, Laws spoke out in the dressing room and said the only 2 players to come out of that half with any credit was Mcdonald and Blake but then told them they were being subbed off. Robbie then told the story about Kev Mac going to the 110 club and also admitted he himself jumped in his car and went straight home

Robbie also mentioned that the rest of the team could not believe Laws had got the job when announced
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Fretters
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Fretters » Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:15 pm

claretburns wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:39 pm
They do have a paid subscriber channel where some interviews are only posted on their and not for the wider public, I listen to each release they do and pay £1.99 per month so it isn't bad.

This Brian Laws podcast has just been released so not sure if it will stay for paid subscribers only or made public in the next few days.
Thanks 👍

Murger
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Murger » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:02 pm

What’s the story about Carlisle and Elliott? Don’t think I’ve heard it.

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:25 am

Murger wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:02 pm
What’s the story about Carlisle and Elliott? Don’t think I’ve heard it.
Targeted him with homophobic comments due to his size and looks.

Murger
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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Murger » Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:47 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:25 am
Targeted him with homophobic comments due to his size and looks.
For someone who’s big into mental health, that’s a poor do.

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:48 am

Murger wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:47 am
For someone who’s big into mental health, that’s a poor do.
Yeah, he wasn't great with the female working in the physio department either

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:57 am

Swizzlestick wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:42 am
Odd how such badly managed set of unprofessional players managed to achieve promotion to the Premier League. In fact, that team had some of the most professional players ever to pull on a claret and blue shirt - Alexander, Duff, Caldwell, Carlisle etc
Sport is full players who are very talented but don't want to put the extra yards in. They can just turn up on the day and perform.
They meet a manager/coach who wants to over train them and they don't want to know.
Coaches think they can get more out of them players.

History suggests it all goes wrong.

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by SammyBoy » Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:25 am

I'm sure Carlisle told a story about how on the way back from an away fixture around Christmas time, the squad booted Laws off the bus at a service station and made him get a taxi the rest of the way home so they could go out in Nottingham.

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Re: Brian Laws - Undr the Cosh

Post by Fretters » Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:35 pm

Murger wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:02 pm
What’s the story about Carlisle and Elliott? Don’t think I’ve heard it.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/peop ... 49546.html

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