Loans into Permanents...thoughts

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burnley007
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Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by burnley007 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:41 pm

Now that the window is closed, will the club look to turn any of the loans into permanent deals? Will this be left till the summer, or sorted earlier?
Apart from (Dervisoglu), we need to do everything possible to get these players signed up. I really hope there's a chance for all 4, or am I just being greedy?

Maatsen
Tella
THB
Beyer

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Falcon » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:43 pm

The Athletic are reporting that we have an option to make Beyer permanent for a fee if we are promoted.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Goody1975 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:44 pm

It'll come down to cost and the value for money, we have shown what is available in Europe (especially Belgium) for less than £5 Million.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:47 pm

I'd be shocked if we manage to sign THB but would hope we get the option to get him on another season long loan. Unless silly money is asked for I expect we'd be able to get hold of Tella and Maatsen.I have no clue on the Beyer situation but I really hope we get him and have all four players as part of next seasons squad in some form or another

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by RVclaret » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:58 pm

Maatsen 12-15m
THB 12-15m
Tella 10m
Beyer 5-10m

Those are all guesses but using previous transfers done by City/Chelsea of their youngsters as guidance. Beyer I’ve put 5-10m in case there’s a buy clause.

No chance we can afford all 4. If it came down to it and we could get 2, I’d be all over THB and Maatsen, both have the highest ceilings and are massive to how we play.

For Beyer I think Ekdal/Al-Dakhil could replace and we could find better value for 10m in Europe instead of Tella.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Duffer_ » Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:03 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:58 pm
Maatsen 12-15m
THB 12-15m
Tella 10m
Beyer 5-10m

Those are all guesses but using previous transfers done by City/Chelsea of their youngsters as guidance. Beyer I’ve put 5-10m in case there’s a buy clause.

No chance we can afford all 4. If it came down to it and we could get 2, I’d be all over THB and Maatsen, both have the highest ceilings and are massive to how we play.
It's complete guesswork but I think Tella at £10m looks on the high side. Difficult for Soton to claim he's PL standard having not recalled him when in a dogfight. I think THB is probably not for sale - still so young and a season long loan in PL suits both sides. Maatsen is the interesting one and whilst Chelsea will be willing to deal, I expect the most competition (driving up the price) for his signature out of the four.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by RVclaret » Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:09 pm

Duffer_ wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:03 pm
It's complete guesswork but I think Tella at £10m looks on the high side. Difficult for Soton to claim he's PL standard having not recalled him when in a dogfight. I think THB is probably not for sale - still so young and a season long loan in PL suits both sides. Maatsen is the interesting one and whilst Chelsea will be willing to deal, I expect the most competition (driving up the price) for his signature out of the four.
City sold 4 youngsters to Southampton last summer, all same age as THB or younger, for around 10-15m per player, with buyback clauses on each of ‘x’ amount, in case they become amazing. That’s how they seem to be doing it. Also THB’s contract is up the following summer so I think that rules out a loan, unless he signs a new deal there…

Agree on Maatsen, interesting though that we didn’t target a left back in January like we have in the other positions of loanees.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Duffer_ » Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:17 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:09 pm
City sold 4 youngsters to Southampton last summer, all same age as THB or younger, for around 10-15m per player, with buyback clauses on each of ‘x’ amount, in case they become amazing. That’s how they seem to be doing it. Also THB’s contract is up the following summer so I think that rules out a loan, unless he signs a new deal there…

Agree on Maatsen, interesting though that we didn’t target a left back in January like we have in the other positions of loanees.
This is what Pep said about those transfers:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.manche ... 916441.amp

If we take him at face value, and I appreciate that he may have ulterior motives, then THB feels like a slightly different proposition. He's had lots of competitive football from a series of progressive loans, arguably has a higher pedigree, and more time to mature as a CB. I had assumed he would sign an improved deal with City if he was going out on loan to another PL club - stands to reason, given he has proved his (increased) worth.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by RVclaret » Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:33 pm

Duffer_ wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:17 pm
This is what Pep said about those transfers:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.manche ... 916441.amp

If we take him at face value, and I appreciate that he may have ulterior motives, then THB feels like a slightly different proposition. He's had lots of competitive football from a series of progressive loans, arguably has a higher pedigree, and more time to mature as a CB. I had assumed he would sign an improved deal with City if he was going out on loan to another PL club - stands to reason, given he has proved his (increased) worth.
Yeah, well I’d absolutely take him on loan again and I’m sure both he and City would see us as a good place to continue. His old man said he’s loving it here (can tell really).
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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by claretandy » Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:19 pm

Sign Beyer and Maatsen, loan THB, I think Obefemi is Tella's replacement.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by houseboy » Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:34 pm

Even though he would apparently be way down the pecking order I think Maatsen would be out of our price range knowing Chelsea and as has been pointed out there may be richer competition for his signature.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by wrj20 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:45 pm

Agreed on Tella - provided we keep Zaroury and Benson they will be first choice wingers (unless we buy someone better than them - and I don't think Tella is better than them). So effectively we'd be spending £10m on Tella for a backup winger (when we also have other backup wingers already, JBG, Twine, Obafemi etc.).

We should only really be spending money in the summer to buy players who will improve the first XI, and that £10m would be far better spent on the spine of the team - especially centre mid where we need to strengthen. It's a shame because I think Tella's been brilliant this season, but it's the harsh reality of having to step up to the Premier League next season.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by ElectroClaret » Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:27 pm

Beyer would be a priority for me, I do take the point about Al-Dakhil being a good player,
but Beyer is something special.

Getting THB on a permanent deal would be a dream.
We'd have real quality competition at the back then.
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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by burnley007 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:02 pm

I'm glad I'm not alone in really rating Beyer, his future looks very bright, although I do think it will be here, (he seems to be very happy atm)

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by warksclaret » Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:04 pm

Maatsen should be possible with the way Chelsea have spent and built up their squad. By the same way they just give clubs the full asking price I would think we could "steal" Maatsen off them as they seem to have no perception of money. Suspect he is 4th or 5th choice LB, and you have other first teamers who could play that role too

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by burnley007 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:07 pm

loans.png
loans.png (17.72 KiB) Viewed 2532 times

LancsLive think we have an option on Beyer

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Tricky Trevor » Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:08 pm

Falcon wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:43 pm
The Athletic are reporting that we have an option to make Beyer permanent for a fee if we are promoted.
Borussia MG have denied there is any option in place.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by burnley007 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:08 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:04 pm
Maatsen should be possible with the way Chelsea have spent and built up their squad. By the same way they just give clubs the full asking price I would think we could "steal" Maatsen off them as they seem to have no perception of money. Suspect he is 4th or 5th choice LB, and you have other first teamers who could play that role too
BUT, Chelsea balance their FFP nonsense by selling players like Maatsen for good money.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Firthy » Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:20 pm

If we continue like we are at present and we gain promotion then the one thing in our favour is that all 4 will want to stay. Team spirit is as good as it gets and that along with first team football is what every player wants. They won't be quaranteed these at their original clubs. I'm hoping VK and player power will persuade their clubs to sell them to us, providing we want and can afford all 4 of them. I have a good feeling about Beyer, Maatsen and Tella coming on permanent deals but THB is a different proposition. Fingers crossed we get the chamnce to nuy them.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by warksclaret » Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:36 pm

Firthy wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:20 pm
If we continue like we are at present and we gain promotion then the one thing in our favour is that all 4 will want to stay. Team spirit is as good as it gets and that along with first team football is what every player wants. They won't be quaranteed these at their original clubs. I'm hoping VK and player power will persuade their clubs to sell them to us, providing we want and can afford all 4 of them. I have a good feeling about Beyer, Maatsen and Tella coming on permanent deals but THB is a different proposition. Fingers crossed we get the chamnce to nuy them.
I totally agree-like you I feel the team spirit between coaches and players seems very strong. There will be a huge excitement from these players as to what it will be like playing in the world's best league under a manager they adore, and what they can achieve.The loan players will very much want to be part of this.

Unless the clubs loaning us players have sent representatives to most games, they will not fully appreciate how much they have improved

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by SalisburyClaret » Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:50 pm

Maatsen - no more than £5m. No problem with his ability but way too easy to wind up and he’d be too big a risk at £12-15m

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:55 pm

We should try and sign them all THB and Beyer first but tella has prem experience and coming off best season of his career if the option is there to sign him perm it’s a no brainer

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Belial » Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:12 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if we went for all of them on a permanent deal, however I suspect it'd come down to whether we're willing to pay the asking price bearing in mind we've already signed a few players who will be pushing for a start next season anyway. I don't think we'd deal unless it is very reasonable, and if I were to guess, I'd say Beyer and Maatsen would be the two most likely. THB will be a big price I'd expect, and I'd think City would still want to keep hold of him if possible

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Hipper » Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:19 pm

We are just over half way through the season and I don't think we can properly judge any of them yet. If we have to I presume we are looking at them to be playing in The Premier League.

Maatsen - at the moment he's not good enough, particularly defensively. I like how he attacks and works with the left wingers but defensively he sometimes goes AWOL and he needs to be stronger. He has made progress in this area but needs to make more.

Tella - he's no where near the finished article and needs to become less 'on edge'. I love his enthusiasm and he's got pace and can finish but no-one yet knows where his best position is. He's the one I'm least convinced about even though there's clearly something there. He needs a lot of work to get his qualities to serve the team.

THB - he's got many good qualities - passing long and short, control, tackling and pretty good reading of the game. What he isn't is aerially dominant. It's a weakness in the whole team. Can he improve that area of his game or do we need some dominant centre back to work with him? Either way, in the current team it represents a major limitation.

Beyer - he's the player who has improved rapidly before our eyes and the most impressive of this group of four loanees. If he continues this progress he will be a top player and I'd like him at Burnley.
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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by claretspice » Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:29 pm

Maatsen would be the top priority for me. I think early season his defending was suspect but it has come on leaps and bounds and his combination of searing pace and top draw passing ability is really rare. He'd be virtually irreplaceable in our budget which is not the case with the others.

After that I think you can make a case for either of the two centre backs - they've both done well but they've both exhibited flaws (Beyer when backpedalling 1 v1, THB in the air) which mean that good players tbough they are, there's an element of doubt about them at PL level. I think THB's passing may make him a fraction more desirable to us than Beyer though.

Tella is a top talent but he's probably the easiest to replicate with an alternative either permanently or on loan - for the less than the inflated fee I imagine Southampton will demand.

But let's be clear. They are all good players and none will be easy to replace. That's the problem with having excellent loan players!

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by burnley007 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:36 pm

Maatsen is only 20, that is absolutely crazy. So is THB, these players have so much scope for improvement.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by dsr » Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:26 am

Chelsea surely can't want Maatsen, but on the other hand they have a record of selling their unwanted players for big money. Though £12m+ sounds like silly money for someone who's never played in the PL and isn't wanted by his club.

If Maatsen desperately wants to come and insists to Chelsea that he will go to Burnley or stay put and take his wage, then we might have a chance. Of course, he would have to actually be desperate to come - it's quite possible that Chelsea might find him another club and a bit more money and he would go there instead.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:16 am

Maatsen I think it’s fairly obvious we should be able to get sorted. THB is highly unlikely to be permanent but I would be quietly confident of another years loan.
Beyer would be affordable and sensible, especially with an option in there if we go up.
Tella is the one I probably wouldn’t sign. We don’t want to be forking out too much for someone who we have developed and who Southampton didn’t see fit to play at the very bottom of the league.

It does slightly concern me that we will probably have to spend £30 off million to retain the squad we have. What scope does that give for improvement. Or will the new model mean we simply look for new loans and signings to develop with less of an emphasis put on remaining in the league…

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by dsr » Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:23 am

Iloveyoubrady wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:16 am
It does slightly concern me that we will probably have to spend £30 off million to retain the squad we have. What scope does that give for improvement. Or will the new model mean we simply look for new loans and signings to develop with less of an emphasis put on remaining in the league…
I'm fairly sure they have no intention of trying to keep the squad we have. Al Dakhil and Ekdal haven't been signed to replace Lowton and Long, they've been signed to replace Taylor and probably one of Harwood-Bellis and Beyer. I think the club has already decided they can't keep both centre half loanees. Possibly neither.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by northernpowerhouse » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:42 am

I wouldn't have thought THB or Maatsen will be available for transfer. The next step for City/Chelsea will be to give them a loan in the PL to see whether they're up to it.

I reckon Southampton will want to give Tella a go in the first team squad so he's probably off the cards unless they get relegated. But even then he'd cost at least £20 million. Young English players don't go cheap.

Beyer is doable. Plus Muric if we want him as a backup.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:58 am

northernpowerhouse wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:42 am
I wouldn't have thought THB or Maatsen will be available for transfer. The next step for City/Chelsea will be to give them a loan in the PL to see whether they're up to it.

I reckon Southampton will want to give Tella a go in the first team squad so he's probably off the cards unless they get relegated. But even then he'd cost at least £20 million. Young English players don't go cheap.

Beyer is doable. Plus Muric if we want him as a backup.
Muric is already ours

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Targetman » Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:20 am

northernpowerhouse wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:42 am
I wouldn't have thought THB or Maatsen will be available for transfer. The next step for City/Chelsea will be to give them a loan in the PL to see whether they're up to it.

I reckon Southampton will want to give Tella a go in the first team squad so he's probably off the cards unless they get relegated. But even then he'd cost at least £20 million. Young English players don't go cheap.

Beyer is doable. Plus Muric if we want him as a backup.
Muric??

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by aggi » Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:50 am

warksclaret wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:36 pm
I totally agree-like you I feel the team spirit between coaches and players seems very strong. There will be a huge excitement from these players as to what it will be like playing in the world's best league under a manager they adore, and what they can achieve.The loan players will very much want to be part of this.

Unless the clubs loaning us players have sent representatives to most games, they will not fully appreciate how much they have improved
Clubs like City and Chelsea have staff and analysists dedicated to their players out on loan. Gary Caldwell was involved in doing it at Man City before he went to Exeter, not sure who it is now and I think Claude Makele is part of Chelsea's setup.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Spijed » Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:59 am

warksclaret wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:36 pm
I totally agree-like you I feel the team spirit between coaches and players seems very strong. There will be a huge excitement from these players as to what it will be like playing in the world's best league under a manager they adore, and what they can achieve.The loan players will very much want to be part of this.

Unless the clubs loaning us players have sent representatives to most games, they will not fully appreciate how much they have improved
Unfortunately, like in every other walk of life players will tend to be driven by the best salary. It's up to us to make sure we can compete with other PL clubs in that respect.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by northernpowerhouse » Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:09 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:58 am
Muric is already ours
Huh, for some reason I thought he was on loan.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by burnley007 » Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:46 pm


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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by dibraidio » Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:56 pm

Surely the whole point is that we buy cheap and sell dear. If we pay 10 to 15 million then there's little or no margin for a profit and let's not forget, these are not proven Premier League players. I'd be surprised if we go for any of those players if the selling club is looking for upwards of 10m.

I'd like to see us sign Beyer, Tella and Maatsen. I get the feeling we will be priced out for THB but hopefully that won't matter with the two new lads.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by clarethomer » Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:31 pm

Just a hunch/feeling but

THB - Retain on another season loan. Think City would jump at getting him some further development under VK.
Beyer - Option to buy in place from looks at it
Maatsen - I think we would try and retain on another season loan if we can't buy
Tella - I think we will end up buying
Brentfor guy - Will go back.

Im hoping Wout will be a raging success and cover these purchases from Man Utd being prepared to spend on him.

In terms of Obafemi - I understand that we are buying him regardless. It's been done as a loan but suspect that it's not even in question of him going back.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by clarethomer » Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:35 pm

dibraidio wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:56 pm
Surely the whole point is that we buy cheap and sell dear. If we pay 10 to 15 million then there's little or no margin for a profit and let's not forget, these are not proven Premier League players. I'd be surprised if we go for any of those players if the selling club is looking for upwards of 10m.

I'd like to see us sign Beyer, Tella and Maatsen. I get the feeling we will be priced out for THB but hopefully that won't matter with the two new lads.
I think you will find that we suddenly become better at selling than previously.

We have bought Foster for around the £10m from trying to interpret all the different figures seen with add ons.

Thinking we couldn't make a profit out of a £10m purchase isn't impossible. I think AP/VK will bring a different dimensions to the little old burnley times of past.

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by FCBurnley » Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:11 pm

Don’t see City selling THB so another season loan would be best we could hope for
If Saints had wanted Tella he would be back by now. So available if the price is right. He seems to love it up north
If we have an option for Beyer the we will sign him
Maatsen is s tough call. Think he is the weakest of the four but a must buy if Chelsea don’t want him

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by burnley007 » Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:25 pm

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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by burnley007 » Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:14 pm

Surely £3m can't be right?? That seems ridiculously cheap for a player of his quality. I hope it is right though.

Bosscat
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Re: Loans into Permanents...thoughts

Post by Bosscat » Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:23 pm

Just aaw this and was sbout to post it ... Hope its got legs 😉
This user liked this post: burnley007

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