RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

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RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by jdrobbo » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:21 pm

PLEASE ONLY RATE THE REF IF YOU ATTENDED THE GAME TODAY AND DO SO AFTER THE GAME HAS ENDED. THANK YOU!

Image

Keith Stroud (Hampshire) v Norwich City


HOW TO SCORE

A. Decision Making (including use of advantage) - out of 25
B. Consistency - out of 25
C. Fitness and Positioning - of 25
D. Control and Authority - out of 25

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by IanMcL » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:29 pm

Thought he was getting a yellow haze, however, all legit and took no nonsense. Makes a change!

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by NL Claret » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:40 pm

Roberts booking was harsh, seen this happen plenty of times over the past few seasons with no caution. If he's going to book him for that type of offence then he has to be consistent. 2nd half when Barnes was fouled by Nunez, Hanley smashes the ball, ref does nothing.

On general he was OK apart from his positioning a couple of times in 2nd half which broke our play down twice.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by ElectroClaret » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:42 pm

NL Claret wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:40 pm
Roberts booking was harsh, seen this happen plenty of times over the past few seasons with no caution. If he's going to book him for that type of offence then he has to be consistent. 2nd half when Barnes was fouled by Nunez, Hanley smashes the ball, ref does nothing.
Agree they have to be consistent, but the fault there was totally Roberts, completely daft booking.
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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by beeholeclaret » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:43 pm

Proper ref today. Reminded me of the good old days before VAR and all the other crap that modern refs have to put up with. He stood no nonsense didnt create any unnecessary dramas and got on with it. Best referee I've seen at a Burnley game this season.
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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by Tricky Trevor » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:55 pm

Very good today.
Not a bad challenge but lots of yellows. Couldn’t argue with any of them but I hope the yellow for Roberts becomes the norm.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by DAVETHEVICAR » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:56 pm

Excellent performance as all referees get some decisions wrong- they are only human
He got all the major ones correct like their call for Barnes hand ball penalty
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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by Rowls » Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:20 pm

He had a couple of really good touches today which is refreshing because you can go whole seasons without the ref touching the ball.
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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by jdrobbo » Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:54 pm

Bump

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by maidenover » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:03 pm

Thought it was a very good performance considering the niggly fouls by both teams. Did not attend so can’t score but all categories would have been around 20 to my reckoning.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by Marney&Mee » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:09 pm

Starred badly by kissing the ball! Thought he was great after that..reffed with a lot of common sense

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by aclaretinstevenage » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:11 pm

Can't mark as I didn't attend but I was pleasantly surprised that he actually had a decent game. I've seen him numerous times before and always thought him poor.

Left his "napoleon" kit at home today and was better for it.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by ClaretInLeeds » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:29 pm

Listened to the first half on Talkshite and they were lamenting the referees performance. Nine yellows dished out in a game where there was only one poor tackle screams that Mr Stroud did not have the game under control and once again wanted to be centre of attention.

Over 100 yellow cards produced by this referee this season alone.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by SalisburyClaret » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:29 pm

22
15
18
22

Card happy but pretty decent

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by dougcollins » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:33 pm

Impressive pre kick-off matchball kissing.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:35 pm

I can't really fault him for most of the yellow cards and was concerned that we might land up with a red. One of the better refs we've had recently, but that's not a very high bar.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by NRC » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:36 pm

Lots of comments here that are not giving points ratings, so I’ll pile in too. I thought he was excellent. Balanced, fair, correct. Mind you, they were having a melt-down on the Pinkun for some reason

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by ClaretInLeeds » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:41 pm

dougcollins wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:33 pm
Impressive pre kick-off matchball kissing.
Does it every game. Weird.
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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by Tricky Trevor » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:49 pm

Back again. Forgot to add higher up, not on Stroud, but still don’t know how the lino missed the shot that came back into play off Pukki, behind the goal line. Best I can come up with is he thought it had hit the post.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:50 pm

ClaretInLeeds wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:29 pm
Listened to the first half on Talkshite and they were lamenting the referees performance. Nine yellows dished out in a game where there was only one poor tackle screams that Mr Stroud did not have the game under control and once again wanted to be centre of attention.
Not a dirty game, but I don't think either side can argue any of the yellow cards - and I've watched the game twice now (+replays)!

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by Bosscat » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:53 pm

Cannot complain about any yellow cards ...

We've certainly had worse Refs

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by claretandy » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:55 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:42 pm
Agree they have to be consistent, but the fault there was totally Roberts, completely daft booking.
He passed it to the keeper, hardly kicking the ball away.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:00 pm

claretandy wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:55 pm
He passed it to the keeper, hardly kicking the ball away.
As I recall Roberts was near the touchline He must have kicked it 30 yards plus.
An obvious booking, though (as you perhaps imply) quite often not given.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by claretandy » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:11 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:00 pm
As I recall Roberts was near the touchline He must have kicked it 30 yards plus.
An obvious booking, though (as you perhaps imply) quite often not given.
Straight to the keeper, I can understand it if you kick it into the crowd.
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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:20 pm

claretandy wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:11 pm
Straight to the keeper, I can understand it if you kick it into the crowd.
I've never spotted that in the rules.
He clearly and deliberately kicked the ball away. We would have expected an opponent to be carded for it.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by NL Claret » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:27 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:20 pm
I've never spotted that in the rules.
He clearly and deliberately kicked the ball away. We would have expected an opponent to be carded for it.
A few years ago yes a booking, nowadays most referees don't bother, especially when he could argue it that he thought he kept it in and passed it to a Norwich player. Hanley boots the ball miles, ref does nowt, is there a different rule if you are winning or losing?

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:37 pm

NL Claret wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:27 pm
A few years ago yes a booking, nowadays most referees don't bother, especially when he could argue it that he thought he kept it in and passed it to a Norwich player. Hanley boots the ball miles, ref does nowt, is there a different rule if you are winning or losing?
No there isn't, but I did accept in a previous post that the application of this rule is inconsistent.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by IanMcL » Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:16 pm

Rowls wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:20 pm
He had a couple of really good touches today which is refreshing because you can go whole seasons without the ref touching the ball.
I thought his deflections were a bit off. Probably down to having so few touches!

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by Buxtonclaret » Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:34 pm

Considering some of the pillocks we've had so far this season, he did good. Non of the bookings were wrong. He let the game go pretty well too.

He needs to work on his lay-offs though, when we have him next time.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by bfcjg » Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:41 pm

MODS, I've said it before and will say it yet again until you can mark from watching on the tele you will never get many responses with marks for away games, we can mark players from the tele but not refs, why ???
I thought he refereed by the book and had a good game.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:30 pm

A 19
B 20
C 17
D 17

With any other referee, there would have been a lot less cards, undoubtedly. He's always been over the top with his cards. Obviously, stood in the corner it's not always easy to see how many were right and wrong, how many he might have let go.

I feared red cards on the way by the time we'd reached half time with six or seven yellows but he did calm down in the second half.
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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by claretspice » Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:58 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:30 pm
A 19
B 20
C 17
D 17

With any other referee, there would have been a lot less cards, undoubtedly. He's always been over the top with his cards. Obviously, stood in the corner it's not always easy to see how many were right and wrong, how many he might have let go.

I feared red cards on the way by the time we'd reached half time with six or seven yellows but he did calm down in the second half.
Let me assure you having seen the incidents several times via TV, there was not a single yellow card in the first half that was not anything other than wholly warranted. Any ref who hadn't booked everyone Stroud did wouldn't have been doing their job. It was the players who settled down in the second half, not Stroud.
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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:33 pm

claretspice wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:58 pm
Let me assure you having seen the incidents several times via TV, there was not a single yellow card in the first half that was not anything other than wholly warranted. Any ref who hadn't booked everyone Stroud did wouldn't have been doing their job. It was the players who settled down in the second half, not Stroud.
this referee has a reputation for going over the top with cards. He sent off Maatsen and a Blackpool player earlier in the season, I'm not saying he was wrong but I've seen several similar incidents this season go unpunished. He's consistent with it but he always goes for his cards.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:36 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:41 pm
MODS, I've said it before and will say it yet again until you can mark from watching on the tele you will never get many responses with marks for away games, we can mark players from the tele but not refs, why ???
I thought he refereed by the book and had a good game.
Nothing to do with the MODS but it's been explained many times and I think it's impossible to mark a referee on the four categories if you are watching on TV.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by claretspice » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:36 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:33 pm
this referee has a reputation for going over the top with cards. He sent off Maatsen and a Blackpool player earlier in the season, I'm not saying he was wrong but I've seen several similar incidents this season go unpunished. He's consistent with it but he always goes for his cards.
Whether that's the case or not, marking on performance not reputation, you cannot criticise any of the bookings that were given yesterday. They were the players' fault, not his.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:37 pm

claretspice wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:36 pm
Whether that's the case or not, marking on performance not reputation, you cannot criticise any of the bookings that were given yesterday. They were the players' fault, not his.
I've marked on what I saw from the position I was in at the ground, the only way I can mark.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by bfcjg » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:48 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:36 pm
Nothing to do with the MODS but it's been explained many times and I think it's impossible to mark a referee on the four categories if you are watching on TV.
You get a far better view on TV ,correct decisions highlighted mistakes highlighted giving a far fairer view, so far only 2 posters have marked this ref.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by Andreshotboots » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:57 pm

Needs to learn to jump the clown..somebody buy him a skipping rope..

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by Rowls » Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:02 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:30 pm
A 19
B 20
C 17
D 17

With any other referee, there would have been a lot less cards, undoubtedly. He's always been over the top with his cards. Obviously, stood in the corner it's not always easy to see how many were right and wrong, how many he might have let go.

I feared red cards on the way by the time we'd reached half time with six or seven yellows but he did calm down in the second half.
Very fiar assessment based on what I watched on TV. It's not always the case when watching live is compared to a broadcast.

My Dad also thought there'd be a red card involved. It probably helped that we put the game out of reach and that took the edge out of the game.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by maidenover » Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:18 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:36 pm
Nothing to do with the MODS but it's been explained many times and I think it's impossible to mark a referee on the four categories if you are watching on TV.
The flip side of this CT is that of the 38 posts on this thread so far only two, (you and salisbury) have given ratings. That’s not much of a base, number wise for a survey. You also seemed to indicate you didn’t have the best of views of events from you position in the corner. Surely a birds eye view on TV with the benefit of action replays gives a better perspective of a referees performance in all four categories than a one time view on the ground.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:53 pm

maidenover wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:18 pm
The flip side of this CT is that of the 38 posts on this thread so far only two, (you and salisbury) have given ratings. That’s not much of a base, number wise for a survey. You also seemed to indicate you didn’t have the best of views of events from you position in the corner. Surely a birds eye view on TV with the benefit of action replays gives a better perspective of a referees performance in all four categories than a one time view on the ground.
I’ve already posted, I don’t run this so pointless asking me. But I watch games on TV and for much of the game, the referee is not even on screen so impossible to view his performance.

The decision to do it this way I do know was taken with advice from a Football League official. If I’ve seen any footage before coming on this thread, I do not offer any ratings.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:53 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:48 pm
You get a far better view on TV ,correct decisions highlighted mistakes highlighted giving a far fairer view, so far only 2 posters have marked this ref.
No you don’t get a better view.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by MDWat » Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:13 pm

You get a ‘better view’ of the main decisions cos you get to watch multiple replays. If a referee could watch multiple replays of every decision he makes, he might make different decisions.

You don’t get to see the positioning of the referee etc. on the television.

FWIW, I thought he was okay. He certainly wasn’t excellent but he did fine.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:32 pm

It does seem odd that you can rate players from tv coverage but not referees. As others have said, the ratings for this particular performance are practically pointless (accidental alliteration) ((oops I did it again)). It makes the two or three ratings on this thread meaningless and not a fair representation as the sample size is too small.

I don’t particularly care, but it might be something worth considering tweaking next season.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:34 pm

MDWat wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:13 pm
You get a ‘better view’ of the main decisions cos you get to watch multiple replays. If a referee could watch multiple replays of every decision he makes, he might make different decisions.

You don’t get to see the positioning of the referee etc. on the television.

FWIW, I thought he was okay. He certainly wasn’t excellent but he did fine.
To be fair I got a pretty good view of Stroud’s positioning from the tv, particularly when he was getting involved in some of our better moves.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by claretspice » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:12 pm

MDWat wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:13 pm
You get a ‘better view’ of the main decisions cos you get to watch multiple replays. If a referee could watch multiple replays of every decision he makes, he might make different decisions.

You don’t get to see the positioning of the referee etc. on the television.

FWIW, I thought he was okay. He certainly wasn’t excellent but he did fine.
But equally, if you by your own admission don't have a good view in real time, and can't look at replays to verify the decision, you can't possibly rate decision making. Its flawed either way and is increasingly influenced by pre conceptions about this ref or the other being rubbish, card-happy, etc.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by MDWat » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:21 pm

Absolutely - don’t disagree with either of you.

Personal preference I suppose - I’d rather rate based on what I see once like the referee does with his decision making. Could see the argument for doing it the other way around too

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by jdrobbo » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:22 pm

claretspice wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:12 pm
But equally, if you by your own admission don't have a good view in real time, and can't look at replays to verify the decision, you can't possibly rate decision making.
…but Spice, this is the VERY criteria the assessors use in the stands, without replays.

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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by RVclaret » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:24 pm

jdrobbo wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:22 pm
…but Spice, this is the VERY criteria the assessors use in the stands, without replays.
Probably all sat in the perfect seat on the half way line though you’d imagine?

If you’re on row B behind the net (or corner) it’s going to be nigh on impossible to see what’s going on the other side, as CT attested to.

claretspice
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Re: RATE THE REF - Keith Stroud v Norwich City

Post by claretspice » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:34 pm

jdrobbo wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:22 pm
…but Spice, this is the VERY criteria the assessors use in the stands, without replays.
I can't comment on that JDR, and whether it's still the case. At lower levels with limited TV footage, theyll have to assess that way. But certainly PGMOL in the PL appear to review games via TV as part of their process, using the benefits of technology, and in any event the assessor will be in one of the best seats in the house, not the away end, and is a professional not an amateur.

Also - they may well do that so as to not beat refs up for making inevitable mistakes on real time viewing. That's rather different to what is happening here.

I'll tell you now, Stroud's decision making yesterday was spot on, because I saw replays of all the big decisions and they were perfectly good decisions. That includes a penalty claim Don Goodman - from a doubtless excellent live vantage point - thought was a penalty, and then changed his mind when the replays showed something he missed. If folk are marking him down cos they suspect he's the sort of ref to be over officious, then they're marking him wrongly on that metric and their scores will be false. That simple, really.

Not having a go at Tony - it's a wider point.

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