Set piece prowess

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Papabendi
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Set piece prowess

Post by Papabendi » Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:19 am

A lot is made of our alleged weakness at set pieces, mainly stemming from the Sheffield United game, but how many goals from corners have we scored this season? It is a fair few. I also remember, back to the Sheff Utd game, THB having a number of opportunities to score from corners in that game.

eastcoastclaret
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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by eastcoastclaret » Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:28 am

VK brought in a set piece coach as part of his team, seems to be paying off.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by jdrobbo » Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:31 am

I agree. I would like to add, since the Sheffield United game, I feel as though we’ve very quickly worked on our setup against teams on long throws/ balls and now look far less susceptible to conceding such easy goals.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Nori1958 » Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:36 am

We struggled with corners against West Brom at home, on another day we could have been 2.0 down from corners

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by bodge » Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:41 am

Like the OP I was a big fan of McNeil and his set piece delivery, so I was fearful that we wouldn't get much joy from corners/free kicks, really pleasing that we are getting the numbers of goals we are from what can be a difference maker in games.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by PremierLeagueClass » Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:43 am

Not matter what we do, it’s always going to be difficult defending set pieces against big sides that know what they’re doing with them. Part of the trade off in having mobile, ball playing cbs.

Papabendi
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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Papabendi » Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:49 am

eastcoastclaret wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:28 am
VK brought in a set piece coach as part of his team, seems to be paying off.
who is that?

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by jedi_master » Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:54 am

We look a threat attacking set pieces now, not sure we did earlier in the season (can only think of THB at PNE?). Ekdal will add to that as he is a unit and his goal record in Sweden speaks for itself.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by eastcoastclaret » Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:59 am

Papabendi wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:49 am
who is that?
Richard Bredice, previously at City and Anderlecht

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Nonayforever » Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:01 am

The progress that this team has made since the opening friendly against Shrewsbury is quite outstanding.
Every department, including set piece defending and attacking, has improved, seemingly on a weekly basis.
VK and his coaching staff are truly remarkable. A huge part of the progress made is very much down to having receptive players.
I didn't think that the level of football we are now watching would have been possible to implement in such a limited time scale.
As a mere fan I am totally engrossed. There must be hordes of people within the industry that are taking a more than keen interest In what is happening at Burnley.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Rowls » Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:32 am

It's still a weakness, judging on the difficulties WBA caused us. But we certainly haven't looked anywhere near the state we were in at Sheff Utd.

One of the problems of being so far ahead of the competition is that very few teams are giving us a real challenge. Mostly, they're trying to kick us around and shorten the odds.

Sheff Utd will give us a game, WBA gave us a decent run out.

However, the real test of how far we've improved will be coming next season.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by claretandy » Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:41 am

Rowls wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:32 am
It's still a weakness, judging on the difficulties WBA caused us. But we certainly haven't looked anywhere near the state we were in at Sheff Utd.

One of the problems of being so far ahead of the competition is that very few teams are giving us a real challenge. Mostly, they're trying to kick us around and shorten the odds.

Sheff Utd will give us a game, WBA gave us a decent run out.

However, the real test of how far we've improved will be coming next season.
West brom got away with fouling us.

Papabendi
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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Papabendi » Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:43 am

Rowls wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:32 am
It's still a weakness, judging on the difficulties WBA caused us. But we certainly haven't looked anywhere near the state we were in at Sheff Utd.

One of the problems of being so far ahead of the competition is that very few teams are giving us a real challenge. Mostly, they're trying to kick us around and shorten the odds.

Sheff Utd will give us a game, WBA gave us a decent run out.

However, the real test of how far we've improved will be coming next season.
Not convinced it is.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Colburn_Claret » Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:46 am

Nonayforever wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:01 am
The progress that this team has made since the opening friendly against Shrewsbury is quite outstanding.
Every department, including set piece defending and attacking, has improved, seemingly on a weekly basis.
VK and his coaching staff are truly remarkable. A huge part of the progress made is very much down to having receptive players.
I didn't think that the level of football we are now watching would have been possible to implement in such a limited time scale.
As a mere fan I am totally engrossed. There must be hordes of people within the industry that are taking a more than keen interest In what is happening at Burnley.
VK said it would take 4-5 months for the players get used to this system.
It looked like he had achieved it in 3 months because we were playing so well.
The last 2 months since then, show that we are indeed still improving, still learning.
Amazingly, there is still scope for improvement.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by arise_sir_charge » Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:47 am

There is a bloke sits near me who says “can we score from corners” every time we get one.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:16 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:36 am
We struggled with corners against West Brom at home, on another day we could have been 2.0 down from corners
Which day would that have been?

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by summitclaret » Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:43 pm

I am reserving judgement on how much our setpiece defending has improved until we have played Luton, Millwall and Blackpool away. I think our new cbs will assist.

When we play SU at home, I'd likely see CT start at left back and Ash up top.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Hipper » Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:41 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:46 am
VK said it would take 4-5 months for the players get used to this system.
It looked like he had achieved it in 3 months because we were playing so well.
The last 2 months since then, show that we are indeed still improving, still learning.
Amazingly, there is still scope for improvement.
Frankly I was just amazed at the performance at Huddersfield and it's just continued from there. Yes I think we are still learning and getting better, finding different ways to win (as a former manager used to say), improving individual players - all of them old and new - and the team as a whole. The word 'exciting' can be a bit over used but not in this case.
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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by dibraidio » Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:57 pm

Before Saturday Norwich had only conceded from two set pieces all season, that was the least of any team in the league.

That doesn't surprise me as Gibson and Hanley are pretty good at dealing with high crosses into the box but the fact that they're not the right players for playing it around at the back is underlined by the fact that they've conceded 18 goals from errors at the back, that's twice as many as any other team. Burnley have conceded 8 which puts us in the top 5 but we've been learning to play out from the back and it's clearly an acceptable risk for VK.

We may have slipped up a few times at the start of the season with mistakes at the back and conceding from set pieces but since the World Cup we've only conceded 3 goals! For a while we seemed to get hit us on the break with crosses again and again but that's another area where we seem to have tightened up. I'm really impressed with how this team is getting better and better adding our own set piece goals is just another string to an already impressive bow.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Colburn_Claret » Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:10 pm

dibraidio wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:57 pm
Before Saturday Norwich had only conceded from two set pieces all season, that was the least of any team in the league.

That doesn't surprise me as Gibson and Hanley are pretty good at dealing with high crosses into the box but the fact that they're not the right players for playing it around at the back is underlined by the fact that they've conceded 18 goals from errors at the back, that's twice as many as any other team. Burnley have conceded 8 which puts us in the top 5 but we've been learning to play out from the back and it's clearly an acceptable risk for VK.

We may have slipped up a few times at the start of the season with mistakes at the back and conceding from set pieces but since the World Cup we've only conceded 3 goals! For a while we seemed to get hit us on the break with crosses again and again but that's another area where we seem to have tightened up. I'm really impressed with how this team is getting better and better adding our own set piece goals is just another string to an already impressive bow.
More amazing that those 3 goals included 2 gifts, from Benson and Cullen, and a clear foul imo on Taylor.
Unless we shoot ourselves in the foot, or get fouled, we are seriously hard to score against.
The mistakes are also getting fewer, as the players wisen up to the system.
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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Nori1958 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:41 am

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:16 pm
Which day would that have been?
Any day with a different ref, who didn't disallow their second goal........from a corner

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by RVclaret » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:49 am

Nori1958 wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:41 am
Any day with a different ref, who didn't disallow their second goal........from a corner
Eh, was a clear foul, would be an awful decision / error for someone to allow that.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by FeedTheArf » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:56 am

I must admit I get really frustrated with the short corner routines - they rarely result in a cross into the box and when they do they're often from a worse position than if they'd just crossed it in to start with.

Defending wise I do think Muric could be a little more imposing given his size, but equally I don't think we can criticise too much when you look at the goals conceded column!

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by claretandy » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:57 am

Nori1958 wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:41 am
Any day with a different ref, who didn't disallow their second goal........from a corner
You can't touch a keeper when he has both feet off the ground.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Rowls » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:58 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:10 pm
The mistakes are also getting fewer, as the players wisen up to the system.
Oh yea! O yea!

We have learnt from every tiny error and slip that happened earlier in the season, at lightning speed.

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Nori1958 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:19 am

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:49 am
Eh, was a clear foul, would be an awful decision / error for someone to allow that.
Yes I know......however that's not to say some of the refs we've had this season would have allowed

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by Nori1958 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:20 am

claretandy wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:57 am
You can't touch a keeper when he has both feet off the ground.
As above...IAM aware of that......but there are some pretty poor refs out there

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by aggi » Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:02 am

I think we got the personnel wrong against Sheff Utd (and were unfortunate that that match coincided with those injuries). Since then we've always gone for one of Barnes or Rodriguez for a bit of added physicality and we didn't replace Brownhill with much physicality either.
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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:12 am

claretandy wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:57 am
You can't touch a keeper when he has both feet off the ground.
That's what I thought.
But doesn't that only apply if the keeper has the ball under control?

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Re: Set piece prowess

Post by ClaretLoup » Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:30 am

aggi wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:02 am
I think we got the personnel wrong against Sheff Utd (and were unfortunate that that match coincided with those injuries). Since then we've always gone for one of Barnes or Rodriguez for a bit of added physicality and we didn't replace Brownhill with much physicality either.

VK made a big mistake by not picking Barnes vs the Blades which he immediately rectified by reinstating him for the next game vs Crawley and the subsequent one vs Rovers. Basher often makes a big contribution defending at set pieces as he did on Saturday. Moreover as Vinny says he is a warrior and therefore a vital element vs teams like Sheffield. Tbf to VK Barnes’s form previously had been poor e.g. he was useless at Sunderland and rightly hooked at half time plus he hadn’t scored up to then. Now he is looking like one of our best players.

To repeat myself it will be a very sad day when he moves on from this club and we may well get a Michael Duff moment vs Cardiff, if so I bet I won’t be the only teary eyed one in the house.

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