Pretty long charge sheet released this morning…. Interesting to see what happens from here on in.

Here’s the list of charges

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:27 am

Interesting to see what happens from here on in.

As always, probably nothing.

2008/9 season? That's taken a while for the penny to drop.

So we can look forward to Chelsea being charged in 2033 can we?

4 yrs of investigation to ensure they can nail the club properly.

Their fans and admirers won't be happy, especially as they were crowing when uefa hit their time limit for charges.

Points deduction and/or relegation is the only punishment worth handing out

This could be massive.

The sooner these cheating clubs sod off to a super league, the better.

Good news....for lawyers

City will do what they did last time and threaten massive corporate level legal action which will take years and cause the authorites to water down charges and issue fine.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/3045970

PL statement.

Keiran Maguire has tweeted that it's amazing how the PL have released this just prior to the government announcing it's plans for the independent regulator

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:38 am

4 yrs of investigation to ensure they can nail the club properly.

Their fans and admirers won't be happy, especially as they were crowing when uefa hit their time limit for charges.

Points deduction and/or relegation is the only punishment worth handing out

Simon Jordan just saying the same.
What's the point of fining them 100 million quid, it's pocket change.
If they are guilty, then it has to be points, or depending on how serious the offences are relegation. no other outcome is a punishment.

Strip them of any titles they've won whilst breaking the rules, relegate them and a massive fine.
Relegate them and they'd have to have a clear out, trouble is then Pep would be gone and Kompany would be in charge!

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:03 am

Simon Jordan just saying the same.
What's the point of fining them 100 million quid, it's pocket change.
If they are guilty, then it has to be points, or depending on how serious the offences are relegation. no other outcome is a punishment.

Juve just got a points deduction and are facing further sanctions for financial irregularities which sound similar to some of the City ones.

They were also relegated for bribery etc 10-15yrs ago.

Nothing will happen to them they’ve got away with it this long. UEFA has cleared them, premier league are a soft touch. I’d be amazed if there’s anything apart from a fine.

They’ve got enough money to shut this down pretty easily.

I’d love them to get relegated but can’t see it.

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:14 am

Nothing will happen to them they’ve got away with it this long. UEFA has cleared them, premier league are a soft touch. I’d be amazed if there’s anything apart from a fine.

They’ve got enough money to shut this down pretty easily.

Uefa didn't clear them, they had a statutory time limit that stopped then charging City, the PL doesn't have such a limit.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:16 am

Uefa didn't clear them, they had a statutory time limit that stopped then charging City, the PL doesn't have such a limit.

They’ll be massive amounts of brown envelopes flying around in the next few weeks for sure.

From reading the charges they appear to relate to non-provision of information (obviously suspicious) rather than expenditure breaches.

The fact the charges are for every single year up until 2018 (when the information was no longer requested/required) speaks volumes. They're in deep, deep **** from what I am reading.

We'll help them out with £10m for Harwood-Bellis though

Money talks, they'll wait while Arsenal are guaranteed to win the title then deduct City 20 points.

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:42 am

Good news....for lawyers

CaptJohn wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:47 am

City will do what they did last time and threaten massive corporate level legal action which will take years and cause the authorites to water down charges and issue fine.

Exactly, CFG have always been clear that their strategy would be to spend more on lawyers than any of the games authorities possibly could

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:51 am

https://www.premierleague.com/news/3045970

PL statement.

Keiran Maguire has tweeted that it's amazing how the PL have released this just prior to the government announcing it's plans for the independent regulator

and for the best part of 4 years I have been posting about this investigation on the MMT, including the repeated pointing out that the Premier League have never formerly charged them and things have been particularly quite in recent months, though a few journalists particular Martyn Zeigler and Tariq Panja have kept asking the questions

With the White Paper on the fan led review expected in the coming days the timing does indeed look very suspicious though that list of charges looks rather extensive and the Premier League will have wanted to have a high degree of certainty in the charges given the above knowledge

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:14 am

Nothing will happen to them they’ve got away with it this long. UEFA has cleared them, premier league are a soft touch. I’d be amazed if there’s anything apart from a fine.

They’ve got enough money to shut this down pretty easily.

I’d love them to get relegated but can’t see it.

UEFA did not clear them, they actually proved the case at CAS - Man City got off on the technicality of UEFA's own rules over the time liability.

It must be remembered that all these charges have come about as a result of the Football Leaks scandal - which is a legal situation ongoing in Portugal and has been very quiet of late with some very interested parties interfering indirectly with the legal process there. That case is likely to end in the European courts so there is likely to be some waiting for that legal process to reach a conclusion

Martyn Zeigler:

‘Man City latest: under Premier League rules the club will not be able to appeal any sanction to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (which overturned the UEFA ban)‘

So, they just can appeal to the PL themselves?

Who cares, just another club breaking the FFP rules or bending them to invest. No club will respect rules until those rule breakers are severely punished. A precedent wasn't set.

City statement in response:

‘Manchester City FC is surprised by the issuing of these alleged breaches of the Premier League Rules, particularly given the extensive engagement and vast amount of detailed materials that the EPL has been provided with.

The Club welcomes the review of this matter by an independent Commission, to impartially consider the comprehensive body of irrefutable evidence that exists in support of its position.

As such we look forward to this matter being put to rest once and for all.’

Who can afford the best lawyers, Man City or PL? I think we all know the answer to that question and how this will pan out......

Cheeky bid for THB?

It is worth being aware of this at the end of that Premier League statement

'Commissions are independent of the Premier League and member clubs. The members of the Commission will be appointed by the independent Chair of the Premier League Judicial Panel, in accordance with Premier League Rules W.19, W.20 and W.26.

The proceedings before the Commission will, in accordance with Premier League Rule W.82, be confidential and heard in private. Under Premier League Rule W.82.2, the Commission’s final award will be published on the Premier League’s website.

This confirmation is made in accordance with Premier League Rule W.82.1. The Premier League will be making no further comment in respect of this matter until further notice.'

This practice is common across sport, and arbitration, but is it in the public interest? and in this current golden age of the conspiracy theory is it even sensible? - at the very least should we consider the idea that proceedings should be recorded and made available to view (in their entirety, no redaction) once the proceedings have closed? Possibly something for an Independent Football Regulator to look at, though some will point (with a level of justification) to the fact that judgements and detailed reasonings for those judgements are usually published and therefore enough.

we should be proud to win promotion, but its a sick , corrupt, vile place we are heading towards.

If anything does come of this, it will be years from now.

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:15 pm

It is worth being aware of this at the end of that Premier League statement

'Commissions are independent of the Premier League and member clubs. The members of the Commission will be appointed by the independent Chair of the Premier League Judicial Panel, in accordance with Premier League Rules W.19, W.20 and W.26.

The proceedings before the Commission will, in accordance with Premier League Rule W.82, be confidential and heard in private. Under Premier League Rule W.82.2, the Commission’s final award will be published on the Premier League’s website.

This confirmation is made in accordance with Premier League Rule W.82.1. The Premier League will be making no further comment in respect of this matter until further notice.'

This practice is common across sport, and arbitration, but is it in the public interest? and in this current golden age of the conspiracy theory is it even sensible? - at the very least should we consider the idea that proceedings should be recorded and made available to view (in their entirety, no redaction) once the proceedings have closed? Possibly something for an Independent Football Regulator to look at, though some will point (with a level of justification) to the fact that judgements and detailed reasonings for those judgements are usually published and therefore enough.

I imagine there is a huge amount of commercially sensitive information as part of the disclosures. I see your point but would it be fair for competitors to be able to access that info (albeit quite a bit out of date).

I guess it depends on how good the final judgement that is released is, whether it's a one-liner or a detailed justification as to how the conclusion was reached.

bumba wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:07 am

Strip them of any titles they've won whilst breaking the rules, relegate them and a massive fine.
Relegate them and they'd have to have a clear out, trouble is then Pep would be gone and Kompany would be in charge!

Im glad you mentioned the last bit. I thought the same to be honest. It’s a ‘be careful what you wish for’ situation. I’d sooner City got away with it than potentially lose VK. No room for morals here.

Apologies if this has already been raised but i'm interested to learn if such breaches open up the possibility of legal discourse from clubs who could conceivably say they've been impacted it.

The likes of ourselves, Norwich and other relegation fodder have 6 points taken away from them almost as a custom by City every season, and at the other end of the league the likes of Liverpool can easily say "well, if they weren't gaming the system and buying players that they shouldn't have then this impacts the title race."

Does anyone know if this is happened before or whether this is a conceivable avenue that opens up if they are found guilty? I'd be surprised if it does.

I'd suspect there's a whole host of contractual obligations to sign up to when you get your "golden share", and to keep it simple lets say that the PL reserves the exclusive right to bring action against clubs that break clauses.

BigGaz wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:16 pm

Apologies if this has already been raised but i'm interested to learn if such breaches open up the possibility of legal discourse from clubs who could conceivably say they've been impacted it.

The likes of ourselves, Norwich and other relegation fodder have 6 points taken away from them almost as a custom by City every season, and at the other end of the league the likes of Liverpool can easily say "well, if they weren't gaming the system and buying players that they shouldn't have then this impacts the title race."

Does anyone know if this is happened before or whether this is a conceivable avenue that opens up if they are found guilty? I'd be surprised if it does.

I'd suspect there's a whole host of contractual obligations to sign up to when you get your "golden share", and to keep it simple lets say that the PL reserves the exclusive right to bring action against clubs that break clauses.

Given the time lag there is likely to be in the legal proceedings and the fact the judgements you are asking about are likely to be the result of civil proceedings we are some way away from this happening - of course City's owners are still richer and more willing to employ multiple teams of lawyers (always the best ones in the field) to fight to the very end and that will include as many appeal courts as they deem necessary

Thanks ever so much Chester

So now are Chelsea, Brighton, Bournemouth and Leicester all to be investigated too

jedi_master wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:39 am

This could be massive.

No chance.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:59 pm

So now are Chelsea, Brighton, Bournemouth and Leicester all to be investigated too

Leicester and Bournemouth cases were settled tears ago

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:15 pm

Leicester and Bournemouth cases were settled tears ago

Leicester just paid up their fine didn't they?

I know QPR spent years fighting theirs.
Didn't Bournemouth drag their heels over theirs too?

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:17 pm

Leicester just paid up their fine didn't they?

I know QPR spent years fighting theirs.
Didn't Bournemouth drag their heels over theirs too?

They all dragged it out but all have paid up, though doing so has contributed significantly to the parsimony we have seen at QPR in recent years - in truth there were much reduced sums they had to pay in the end when compared to what the rules outlined

That's a lot of Parking Lots.

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:22 pm

They all dragged it out but all have paid up, though doing so has contributed significantly to the parsimony we have seen at QPR in recent years - in truth there were much reduced sums they had to pay in the end when compared to what the rules outlined

The fines were also tiny compared to the increase in revenue from getting promoted to the Premier League.

aggi wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:39 pm

The fines were also tiny compared to the increase in revenue from getting promoted to the Premier League.

Indeed, I initially typed 'paltry' but then reconstructed the whole sentenced, but it probably sums it up better.

Meanwhile many have seen the final fines as worth the risk - the loser of the Derby/Villa play off final clearly illustrates both sides of such an equation

Anyone wanting an understanding of the full meaning of today's statement from the Premier League may find this piece useful

The Premier League’s Manchester City statement — a line-by-line annotation
https://archive.is/8Ml5Z

Long way to run this one. Just Stop Oil will be pleased

houseboy wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:10 pm

Im glad you mentioned the last bit. I thought the same to be honest. It’s a ‘be careful what you wish for’ situation. I’d sooner City got away with it than potentially lose VK. No room for morals here.

Unless they did a Rangers or Juve and sent City to League 2 where I doubt even VK would entertain that job!

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:17 am

They’ll be massive amounts of brown envelopes flying around in the next few weeks for sure.

Without a shadow it's as sure as eggs. It's absolutely amazing when you've got sh1tloads of dosh how you can make problems disappear & silence the right people.

bumba wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:00 pm

Unless they did a Rangers or Juve and sent City to League 2 where I doubt even VK would entertain that job!

I don’t think that’s gonna happen though bud. Rangers went bust and had to rebuild. Juve, I believe, is more an internal thing. I think nothing much will happen anytime soon because City’s extremely expensive legal team won’t let anything happen without a long drawn out fight. Chances are if there is any punishment at all it might not come until VK has moved on anyway. The only danger is if Pep cleared off

This is all about the premier league losing its keys to the dry powder room, they couldn’t care less about the rules.

As soon as this “ investigation” was announced the independent regulator report that was due this week was stopped in its tracks. Hmm slightly suspicious timing!

An old acquaintance of mine has just posted " CTWD " on his F/B page ... I replied asking if it stood for " Cheating 'til we're discovered ".

It's not gone down well !!

houseboy wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:51 pm

I don’t think that’s gonna happen though bud. Rangers went bust and had to rebuild. Juve, I believe, is more an internal thing. I think nothing much will happen anytime soon because City’s extremely expensive legal team won’t let anything happen without a long drawn out fight. Chances are if there is any punishment at all it might not come until VK has moved on anyway. The only danger is if Pep cleared off

Juve - relegated a few years back for bribing match officials etc.
More recently given a 15 point deduction I think it was but that's just the start of punishments that will be handed out to them, don't be surprised if they get bounced down a league again.
The Italian FA don't faff about with this stuff.

We've also had Leeds and Luton both being deducted points for far less than the stuff City have been doing.

Points deduction will be the minimum punishment, I'm expecting a lot more.

Demote them to the Northern Premier League Premier Division. Big derby with F.C. United of Manchester.