Chairman's notes...

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NRC
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Chairman's notes...

Post by NRC » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:09 pm

"In addition to the incomings, the window saw us say goodbye to Wout Weghorst, Matthew Lowton, Will Norris, Ashley Westwood and Kevin Long, while CJ Egan-Riley, Luke McNally, Owen Dodgson and Bobby Thomas went out on loan to various Clubs across the UK."

Have I/we missed something with Weggy? Is his contract terminated? I thought he was on loan, albeit to a different club

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... amme-notes

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by evensteadiereddie » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:23 pm

Not terminated but it sounds like the bridge has been well and truly burned.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Spijed » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:25 pm

Makes you wonder if we've already agreed a deal with Man U.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by ksrclaret » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:27 pm

Difficult to imagine a slip of the pen, so to speak, there.

Hoping it means we’ve agreed a deal with Man U whereby they have to purchase Weghorst in the summer for a fee in the region of what we paid for him.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by NRC » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:37 pm

"agreed a deal" doesn't work here. Pace's note is determinate "saw us say goodbye." If we was still an employee i.e. on contract he wouldn't have said that. As written it's not a future event, it's done

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:49 pm

i read that Weggy, Lowts and Norris were loaned out?? Perhaps that info (from Uptheclarets squad list) is incorrect. :?

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Billyblah » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:53 pm

We're not the sort of club that can simply write off £12m or however much he cost us. I'm with KSR here. Let's hope we can recoup the fee that we paid for him.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Buxtonclaret » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:57 pm

Hopefully, we'll get our money back.
He can do one for me.

Will only be a mild shrug of my shoulders when we read Manure have either loaned him to Wigan or, sold him to Milton Keynes.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Big Vinny K » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:05 pm

Billyblah wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:53 pm
We're not the sort of club that can simply write off £12m or however much he cost us. I'm with KSR here. Let's hope we can recoup the fee that we paid for him.
Think we paid nearer to £8m to £10m for him.
We have already had around a £2.5m loan fee.
There was already a fee agreed with Beskitas so I do not think that we would have accepted a smaller fee from United. For us to give up our agreement with Beskitas there needed to be something in it for us in addition to the £100k or so extra we got for the loan fee from United. I doubt we will lose money on the original purchase and would not be surprised if we made a couple of million at least.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Greenmile » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:06 pm

NRC wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:37 pm
"agreed a deal" doesn't work here. Pace's note is determinate "saw us say goodbye." If we was still an employee i.e. on contract he wouldn't have said that. As written it's not a future event, it's done
You can say goodbye to someone you know is due to return (eg a spouse leaving for work in the morning) and technically we recalled him from one loan before sending him out on another this window, so there is a valid interpretation of Pace’s notes which tells us nothing we don’t already know.

That said, he must realise his choice of words could easily be interpreted as you have done.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Big Vinny K » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:07 pm

Greenmile wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:06 pm
You can say goodbye to someone you know is due to return (eg a spouse leaving for work in the morning) and technically we recalled him from one loan before sending him out on another this window, so there is a valid interpretation of Pace’s notes which tells us nothing we don’t already know.

That said, he must realise his choice of words could easily be interpreted as you have done.
But he distinguishes those players who have left the club for good and those who have gone on loan and Weg is in the former.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Greenmile » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:08 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:07 pm
But he distinguishes those players who have left the club for good and those who have gone on loan and Weg is in the former.
Yep. I totally missed that.

Ignore my previous post then. Sorry.
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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by PremierLeagueClass » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:10 pm

Feels like a typo to me.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:10 pm

Hoping we re-sign Wout Weghorst at the end of the season when he's finished his spell with ManU, maybe with a League Cup medal to his name.

UTC

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by NRC » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:38 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:10 pm
Hoping we re-sign Wout Weghorst at the end of the season when he's finished his spell with ManU, maybe with a League Cup medal to his name.

UTC
well, based on the Chairman's notes, what are we prepared to pay for him.... or alternate, depending on interpretation, Weggy is out of contract?

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:00 pm

NRC wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:38 pm
well, based on the Chairman's notes, what are we prepared to pay for him.... or alternate, depending on interpretation, Weggy is out of contract?
I was thinking of keeping his existing contract running, assuming it hasn't been closed out early by mutual agreement...

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by BurnleyFC » Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:13 pm

Not a cat in hell’s chance we’d agree to mutually terminate the contract of a £10m asset.

United will have an obligation to buy.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:09 am

NRC wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:09 pm
"In addition to the incomings, the window saw us say goodbye to Wout Weghorst, Matthew Lowton, Will Norris, Ashley Westwood and Kevin Long, while CJ Egan-Riley, Luke McNally, Owen Dodgson and Bobby Thomas went out on loan to various Clubs across the UK."

Have I/we missed something with Weggy? Is his contract terminated? I thought he was on loan, albeit to a different club

Lowton & Norris too are out on loan although their contracts come to an end this summer.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by NRC » Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:21 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:09 am
Lowton & Norris too are out on loan although their contracts come to an end this summer.
Ok, so by your logic then Weggy’s must do too…. Which is new information, is it not?

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Rowls » Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:29 pm

NRC wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:21 pm
Ok, so by your logic then Weggy’s must do too…. Which is new information, is it not?
Weghorst signed a 4 year contract, I think.

There's not new information in the chairman's notes but it seems to close the door firmly on a return for the gangly one.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by IanMcL » Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:47 pm

I read it too, yesterday. I took it that, for whatever reason, it has been agreed that Weghorst will not return to Burnley, after his current loan period. That suggests either a done deal somewhere or a need to find him a new club, at the end of this season.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Nonayforever » Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:53 pm

100 % written to inform that Wout won't be returning.

Therefore a deal must be in place to end his contract.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by chekhov » Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:06 pm

NRC wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:21 pm
Ok, so by your logic then Weggy’s must do too…. Which is new information, is it not?
When you say, “by your logic” you imply that CT is stating an opinion, or “new” information. He isn’t. He’s merely stating a known fact.
Apologies for my pedantry.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:03 pm

chekhov wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:06 pm
When you say, “by your logic” you imply that CT is stating an opinion, or “new” information. He isn’t. He’s merely stating a known fact.
Apologies for my pedantry.
Thanks - at least you understood what I’d posted

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by NRC » Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:37 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:03 pm
Thanks - at least you understood what I’d posted
Show me…. anywhere, where it has been stated that Weghorst’s contract comes to an end this summer

@Checkov, I imply no such thing. I can read very well, thank you, and I can identify that what CT wrote is presented as a fact. However, the fact excludes identifying Weghorst similarly. It follows, then, that me writing “by your logic” is perfectly accurate. It does not suggest the presence of opinion, nor new information - the very opposite in fact, it is the new information being sought.

Which brings me back to my question above - show me where it is stated or announced that Weghorst’s contract comes to an end this summer

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:01 pm

NRC wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:37 pm
Show me…. anywhere, where it has been stated that Weghorst’s contract comes to an end this summer

@Checkov, I imply no such thing. I can read very well, thank you, and I can identify that what CT wrote is presented as a fact. However, the fact excludes identifying Weghorst similarly. It follows, then, that me writing “by your logic” is perfectly accurate. It does not suggest the presence of opinion, nor new information - the very opposite in fact, it is the new information being sought.

Which brings me back to my question above - show me where it is stated or announced that Weghorst’s contract comes to an end this summer
I wasn’t even referring to Weghorst - I was merely pointing out that both Lowton & Norris are out on loan. So you clearly cannot identify what I wrote.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by dsr » Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:02 pm

NRC wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:37 pm
Show me…. anywhere, where it has been stated that Weghorst’s contract comes to an end this summer

@Checkov, I imply no such thing. I can read very well, thank you, and I can identify that what CT wrote is presented as a fact. However, the fact excludes identifying Weghorst similarly. It follows, then, that me writing “by your logic” is perfectly accurate. It does not suggest the presence of opinion, nor new information - the very opposite in fact, it is the new information being sought.

Which brings me back to my question above - show me where it is stated or announced that Weghorst’s contract comes to an end this summer
Pace (to me) is simply splitting the players into two groups, those who he thinks are gone and won't come back, and those out on temporary loan. That doesn't necessarily mean Lowton won't be back or Egan-Riley will (though the odds are not in favour), just a reflection on the state of play.

It's perfectly possible that Pace believes Weghorst won't be back even though no agreement has been made to say that's true. It's also possible that he didn't even think it through in such detail and it was more or less a throwaway remark.

Reading hidden meanings into straightforward statements of fact is a bit counterproductive.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by NRC » Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:15 pm

dsr wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:02 pm
Pace (to me) is simply splitting the players into two groups, those who he thinks are gone and won't come back, and those out on temporary loan. That doesn't necessarily mean Lowton won't be back or Egan-Riley will (though the odds are not in favour), just a reflection on the state of play.

It's perfectly possible that Pace believes Weghorst won't be back even though no agreement has been made to say that's true. It's also possible that he didn't even think it through in such detail and it was more or less a throwaway remark.

Reading hidden meanings into straightforward statements of fact is a bit counterproductive.
Ok then.. let’s see how this thread ages. Weghorst, even though contracted, is not coming back, which means agreement has been reached regarding his contract

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by No Ney Never » Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:26 pm

Love how some on this board argue to detail about the relevance of a turn of phrase, chapter 2, paragraph 5, subsection 9 of section 1, clause 11 amendrd in clause 16 of the statement of facts clearly says......!

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by chekhov » Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:46 pm

NRC wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:15 pm
Ok then.. let’s see how this thread ages. Weghorst, even though contracted, is not coming back, which means agreement has been reached regarding his contract
Think you may be right. My wild guess would be Man utd. have already agreed a deal to buy him (which is great news).

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by dsr » Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:29 pm

NRC wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:15 pm
Ok then.. let’s see how this thread ages. Weghorst, even though contracted, is not coming back, which means agreement has been reached regarding his contract
We knew Gibson wasn't coming back long before his contract was settled. We knew Dyche wasn't coming back long before his contract was settled. It's possible to make a decision not to have someone back and then make the agreement.

I agree that he's probably not coming back, but you're reading far more into it than Pace's words imply.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by Boss Hogg » Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:48 pm

I think some on here could start an argument with themselves.

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Re: Chairman's notes...

Post by daveisaclaret » Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:58 pm

Perhaps when he said goodbye to Wout Weghorst Pace said "goodbye lad, I don't know where you'll be next season but it won't be here you useless gret lummox"

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