Leeds/Man U

[Silkyskills1]

Don't get the fraudster thing. What has he done that is fraudulent? Isn't he just trying to play football to the best of his ability?

Think you've just answered your own question. Managing to get by at one of the biggest football clubs in the world. Maybe the word fraudster is a tad harsh in hindsight but his rise to 'stardom' in the last 12 months has been both meteoric and mesmerising. Little in the way of special skills to explain his high profile but he is able to complete 90 mins. Maybe the manager likes workhorses in his side as he has Fred holding down a regular place too. Jason Tindall at Newcastle fits a similar profile. A 'yes man', then a failure at management and then along come the Saudis and their money to fund his 'yes man' status again. Incredible really.

[claretburns]

Had a nice £465 win on a bet builder, so cheers United!

[HiThere]

Had a nice £465 win on a bet builder, so cheers United!

Get the beers in.

[Colburn_Claret]

Man Utd are trying to play out the back like we do but the are just so slow! Watching McGuire on the ball is painful

This, and the fact that De Gea isn't Muric. You can see what they want to do, but they are **** at it.

[Colburn_Claret]

I thought Weghorst had a decent game

I wouldn't say decent, but the problem is definitely the team around him, and not him.

[chekhov]

Think you've just answered your own question. Managing to get by at one of the biggest football clubs in the world. Maybe the word fraudster is a tad harsh in hindsight but his rise to 'stardom' in the last 12 months has been both meteoric and mesmerising. Little in the way of special skills to explain his high profile but he is able to complete 90 mins. Maybe the manager likes workhorses in his side as he has Fred holding down a regular place too. Jason Tindall at Newcastle fits a similar profile. A 'yes man', then a failure at management and then along come the Saudis and their money to fund his 'yes man' status again. Incredible really.

I agree he has limited ability. If he hadn’t scored those World Cup goals there’s no way he’d have got the man utd. move. But Ten Haag seems to like him and he always puts a shift in. Fair play to him I say, and he did alright today, got an assist and ran around a lot.

[HiThere]

I think Man U would be much more dangerous if he was on the bench. As much as I want him to play well and for us to get a nice transfer fee, I don't rate him and think Man U would be better attacking with somebody else in his place.

[Colburn_Claret]

Think you've just answered your own question. Managing to get by at one of the biggest football clubs in the world. Maybe the word fraudster is a tad harsh in hindsight but his rise to 'stardom' in the last 12 months has been both meteoric and mesmerising. Little in the way of special skills to explain his high profile but he is able to complete 90 mins. Maybe the manager likes workhorses in his side as he has Fred holding down a regular place too. Jason Tindall at Newcastle fits a similar profile. A 'yes man', then a failure at management and then along come the Saudis and their money to fund his 'yes man' status again. Incredible really.

Ten Haag plays him to do a specific job, but he can only do it if the players around him do theirs.
United have been shocking, but it's all Weghorst's fault....... Take the biased glasses off. What happened at Burnley shouldn't alter the facts of today.

[CombatClaret]

I wouldn't say decent, but the problem is definitely the team around him, and not him.

The best-united team in years are the problem? Before that we were.
What has this guy done to make people believe there's a Messi in there if it were not for the other 10 players on his team.

[Colburn_Claret]

I think Man U would be much more dangerous if he was on the bench. As much as I want him to play well and for us to get a nice transfer fee, I don't rate him and think Man U would be better attacking with somebody else in his place.

Why would they pass to his replacement, when they don't pass to him? It's a nonsense.

[ElectroClaret]

City 1 Villa 0

[Colburn_Claret]

The best-united team in years are the problem? Before that we were.
What has this guy done to make people believe there's a Messi in there if it were not for the other 10 players on his team.

I never said he was Messi, but he is good at what Ten Haag wants him to do.

Go back and read the post match thread of away to Brighton last season, and see what a player he potentially is. Dyche never used him, for whatever reason, and the Utd players aren't using him either.

As for the best Utd team in years, if you think the first 80 mins today, was the best utd team in years, you have your head stuck in a dark place.

[HiThere]

Why would they pass to his replacement, when they don't pass to him? It's a nonsense.

Because they'd more than likely prefer his replacement.

[Colburn_Claret]

Because they'd more than likely prefer his replacement.

That just proves my point, cheers.

[Jakubclaret]

I never said he was Messi, but he is good at what Ten Haag wants him to do.

Go back and read the post match thread of away to Brighton last season, and see what a player he potentially is. Dyche never used him, for whatever reason, and the Utd players aren't using him either.

As for the best Utd team in years, if you think the first 80 mins today, was the best utd team in years, you have your head stuck in a dark place.

It's the best team in recent years & the final finishing spot will probably support that, I think he's a decent player but he'll never win folk over here because of his perceived attitude & the fact he wanted out & publicly went on record stating that instead of just quietly leaving he's damned if he does & damned if he doesn't whatever he does, the fact that united identified him & are now playing him regular seems to go over some people's heads but they clearly know more than ten haag about football so you can't win there as well

[HiThere]

That just proves my point, cheers.

Not really. They'd prefer his replacement because his replacement was much better.

[Silkyskills1]

Ten Haag plays him to do a specific job, but he can only do it if the players around him do theirs.
United have been shocking, but it's all Weghorst's fault....... Take the biased glasses off. What happened at Burnley shouldn't alter the facts of today.

Not got any 'biased glasses' on and his contribution or lack of.at Turf Moor have no bearing on my assessment of him. He's had 12 months that he'll.probably never forget and most probably never repeat. Maybe he illustrates being 'in the right place at the right time' perfectly. A workhorse striker that doesn't score goals; at least it could be an innovation to compete with 'the false number 9'.

[Colburn_Claret]

Not got any 'biased glasses' on and his contribution or lack of.at Turf Moor have no bearing on my assessment of him. He's had 12 months that he'll.probably never forget and most probably never repeat. Maybe he illustrates being 'in the right place at the right time' perfectly. A workhorse striker that doesn't score goals; at least it could be an innovation to compete with 'the false number 9'.

He scored goals in Germany, which is a good comparison to the Prem. He also scored for us, and looked a cracking buy, re the look at the post Brighton thread.
I'm not denying that the wheels came off here, but I think there was just as much fault with SDs use of him, as there was with Wout himself. His performance for Holland, and Ten Haag's bring him in, which won't be based on 1 game in the WC, show that he is a good player.
I just don't understand the stick he gets, from Burnley and Utd fans, for his performances, when the problem is clearly with his teammates and not him. When he's missed 3 or 4 sitters, or failed to play an easy pass, then come back and tell me I told you so, but on his showings so far HE has done nothing wrong.

[CombatClaret]

Go back and read the post match thread of away to Brighton last season, and see what a player he potentially is. Dyche never used him, for whatever reason, and the Utd players aren't using him either.

Or he's just not Premier League quality.
He can bag goals against the B teams of Germany & Turkey at a rate of 1 goal every 2 games but he's now 2 for 25 at the top level.

Burnely not being able to get a tune out of him could be dismissed as a lack of quality around him and I'd have been happy to be proven wrong, but with every game he plays for United that argument gets weaker.

[Rileybobs]

Or he's just not Premier League quality.
He can bag goals against the B teams of Germany & Turkey at a rate of 1 goal every 2 games but he's now 2 for 25 at the top level.

Burnely not being able to get a tune out of him could be dismissed as a lack of quality around him and I'd have been happy to be proven wrong, but with every game he plays for United that argument gets weaker.

But in many ways similar to our number 9, their primary role in the team isn’t to score goals.

[Hipper]

I think I'm right in saying that Ten Hag has started him in every match (eight) since he arrived, he's got 1 goal and one assist and United have won five drawn two and lost one (Arsenal).

[CombatClaret]

But in many ways similar to our number 9, their primary role in the team isn’t to score goals.

Our number 9s have plenty of assists.
Weghorst got his first assist today when he dropped back to a 10 and Garnachoat played at No9.
The 2 weeks before that all 3 United non-penalty goals come after he's subbed off.

I just think United should aspire to a number 9 who is more than just 'a bit of distraction'.

[RVclaret]

I just think United should aspire to a number 9 who is more than just 'a bit of distraction'.

And it’s highly likely they will…

The owners weren’t spending in January as they are looking to sell the club. Weghorst is nothing more than a stop gap till the summer, if he does well they sign him for a low fee (for them) and use him for rotation / another option to their main striker. Otherwise, he comes back to us and Kompany decides what to do… I personally hope we can shift him.

[Rileybobs]

Our number 9s have plenty of assists.
Weghorst got his first assist today when he dropped back to a 10 and Garnachoat played at No9.
The 2 weeks before that all 3 United non-penalty goals come after he's subbed off.

I just think United should aspire to a number 9 who is more than just 'a bit of distraction'.

Jay and Barnes have 5 assists between them this season.

I don’t think Weghorst is good enough first choice for a team challenging for the title, but by the same measure he’s also nowhere near as poor as he’s being made out to be by others. He was fine today in what was generally a poor team performance where he had to come very deep to try to get Man Utd up the pitch. Got a good assist. He’s not in the team to get bucket loads of goals as, like Burnley, Man Utd have plenty of other players who will do that.

[Devils_Advocate]

Our number 9s have plenty of assists.

Barnes has 3 assists and I think 2 were early on in the season when one ricocheted off his backside and the other was when he miscontrolled it and it broke to one of our players

Im not convinced Weghorst is Premier League quality but the role he is playing as a focal point for the rest of team to play off him is very much the role Barnes is being used for by VK.

[HiThere]

Tella is becoming our number 9. The number 9 is the one who runs through and scores the goals.

[Rileybobs]

Tella is becoming our number 9. The number 9 is the one who runs through and scores the goals.

Tella isn't primarily deployed in a central position.

[Colburn_Claret]

Our number 9s have plenty of assists.
Weghorst got his first assist today when he dropped back to a 10 and Garnachoat played at No9.
The 2 weeks before that all 3 United non-penalty goals come after he's subbed off.

I just think United should aspire to a number 9 who is more than just 'a bit of distraction'.

Are you deliberately obtuse, or can't you help yourself.
WE pass to our No 9.
UTD don't.
It's very simple to understand.

The idea that it's Weghorst's fault, because no one will pass to him, is ridiculous.

[HiThere]

Tella isn't primarily deployed in a central position.

That's why I say he's becoming. He's clearly at his best alongside Barnes as the 10.

[Colburn_Claret]

Tella isn't primarily deployed in a central position.

BUT he should be. I don't think he is a target man, although he is a very good outlet, but playing off someone like Ash, as he did most of yesterday, makes him a much better player.
Rashford is the same, they keep playing him on the wing, yet he looks average until he moves into the middle, then he's lethal.

[Rileybobs]

BUT he should be. I don't think he is a target man, although he is a very good outlet, but playing off someone like Ash, as he did most of yesterday, makes him a much better player.
Rashford is the same, they keep playing him on the wing, yet he looks average until he moves into the middle, then he's lethal.

I disagree, I don't think there's much to improve on in terms of the way VK is setting the team up. Zaroury and Tella hug the touchline and make the pitch as big as possible, the difference between the two being that Tella prefers to drift centrally whereas Zaroury is more comfortable sticking to the line. I don't think he played off Ash most of yesterday, he did for the second and third goals but they were rather uncharacteristically long punts up field from Muric.

[HiThere]

BUT he should be. I don't think he is a target man, although he is a very good outlet, but playing off someone like Ash, as he did most of yesterday, makes him a much better player.
Rashford is the same, they keep playing him on the wing, yet he looks average until he moves into the middle, then he's lethal.

Barnes is the target man. Tella plays off what Barnes does, whether it be a header, a backer or making the defender knock the ball on.

[timshorts]

I thought Weghorst had a decent game

For which team?

[dougcollins]

I reckon Fred is United's most important player, I really don't understand the criticism he attracts.

[CombatClaret]

The idea that it's Weghorst's fault, because no one will pass to him, is ridiculous.

What kind of team does he have to play in (in the Premier League) to be effective? We couldn't get a tune out of him, a resurgent United can't seem to get him firing. At what point will you consider maybe it's him noting being up to this level and not the other 10 men on his team?

People using two opposing excuses for him
a) If he got passes he'd score goals
b) He's not there to score goals

At the start of today's game. The game he got his first assist when he wasn't playing No9

FoxnUFeXEAgcKHx.jpg (278.6 KiB) Viewed 624 times

[Colburn_Claret]

What kind of team does he have to play in (in the Premier League) to be effective? We couldn't get a tune out of him, a resurgent United can't seem to get him firing. At what point will you consider maybe it's him noting being up to this level and not the other 10 men on his team?

People using two opposing excuses for him
a) If he got passes he'd score goals
b) He's not there to score goals

At the start of today's game. The game he got his first assist when he wasn't playing No9
FoxnUFeXEAgcKHx.jpg

When he's given the chance to score, and he misses, come back.
If you watch any of their games there's loads of opportunities to play him in, or put a cross over for him, they don't. How you can say that is his fault, is pathetic. Ten Haag must agree with me because he has started every game since he signed him. If there was anything in your claim he'd have been dropped.

[Duffer_]

If you watch any of their games there's loads of opportunities to play him in, or put a cross over for him, they don't.

I think you might be mistaking him putting his arms out and demanding the ball with "opportunities to play him in". I've seen every minute he's played for Utd and he's done OK but no more than that.

[Duffer_]

I think you might be mistaking him putting his arms out and demanding the ball with "opportunities to play him in". I've seen every minute he's played for Utd and he's done OK but no more than that.

To add to that...with Wout, you could freeze frame and make a case for playing him in or crossing to him but it would require you to ignore his lumbering movement and his inability to jump his height.

[Colburn_Claret]

To add to that...with Wout, you could freeze frame and make a case for playing him in or crossing to him but it would require you to ignore his lumbering movement and his inability to jump his height.

Which may be true, but until he gets those crosses we'll never know.
I'm not trying to claim he's a world beater, just countering the argument that he's rubbish, on the grounds no one passes to him.