Transfer embargo

[AGENT_CLARET]

I bet we get at least 20 pages out of this

[RVclaret]

Not trying to be a know-all here but you can't be compliant with Financial Fair Play rules if you haven't even submitted your accounts.

And these accounts are for the 2021-22 season in the PL, not 2022-23 season in the EFL.

[jedi_master]

That’ll be it exactly. Control the narrative before it’s released in EFL language.

This made me laugh - not by the fact you said it agreenwood, as you’re right, that is precisely why the club has issued a statement tonight - just that it would have been far easier to ‘control the narrative’ by simply doing what is required, when it was required.

It seems cavalier that the club now all of a sudden care about their responsibilities when the messaging is about to go public. If they cared about PR they’d have simply done what they needed to do months ago.

[Chester Perry]

Well the BBC have produced a misleading article, implying that we could have breached FFP rules. Not helpful and those that skim read stuff will be assuming things.

Burnley hit by EFL transfer embargo after late draft accounts submission - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64933316

We have broken financial reporting requirements - as arise sir charge posted earlier there is no way in heaven, hell or all points in between have we have broken financial fair play rules

[ClaretCliff]

But if Alan Pace & Co. have little experience of owning a football club then why didn't they speak to people who have a lot of knowledge in this area and get their advice and expertise?

The telephone is a great invention!

Perhaps they did just that and the advice they received was to change the auditors.

[BurnleyFC]

Tainted our season amongst the rest of the country, the non BFC fans don't give a toss about the context, just the headline.

This.

From owners who appear to be so focused on positive media, it doesn’t look particularly good, even if it is an innocent mistake.

[Longsider]

We have broken financial reporting requirements - as arise sir charge posted earlier there is no way in heaven, hell or all points in between have we have broken financial fair play rules

Exactly. We would have to have rich owners to be at the gates of financial fair play hell.

[forzagranata]

And these accounts are for the 2021-22 season in the PL, not 2022-23 season in the EFL.

Right.

What we really don't want is to give any excuse for the EFL to start investigating or other clubs to start legal moves.

Pace is fond of comparing his dealings to getting a mortgage on a house. Well this is why self-employed people get their taxes done on time - to make sure the taxman doesn't come sniffing around.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Not knowing how any of the accounts etc side of the club works , I have no idea what possible reasons there could be.

So I’ll make one up - there’s been major investment which we didn’t want to disclose until absolutely necessary

[summitclaret]

Not knowing how any of the accounts etc side of the club works , I have no idea what possible reasons there could be.

So I’ll make one up - there’s been major investment which we didn’t want to disclose until absolutely necessary

Like until we screwed the clubs we were signing players from.

[arise_sir_charge]

Right.

What we really don't want is to give any excuse for the EFL to start investigating or other clubs to start legal moves.

Pace is fond of comparing his dealings to getting a mortgage on a house. Well this is why self-employed people get their taxes done on time - to make sure the taxman doesn't come sniffing around.

No clubs will be taking legal action, calm down.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

We've breached the financial rules of the EFL and received the first sanction.

Where it gets potentially complicated is if other clubs start to take interest in this matter and hire lawyers.

Ironically, that is exactly what we did with regard to Everton last season.

The two situations aren't even remotely comparable

[Milltown1882]

Might as well merge this with the snooze fest that is the takeover thread with everyone absolute desperate for Pace to fail.

[fatboy47]

I'll cry when I'm hurt.

[ElectroClaret]

The authorities probably can't believe we got twenty million for Dwight....

[Chester Perry]

But if Alan Pace & Co. have little experience of owning a football club then why didn't they speak to people who have a lot of knowledge in this area and get their advice and expertise?

The telephone is a great invention!

Financial reporting to the EFL will come under the purview of Chief Operating Officer / Club Secretary Matt Williams who has years of experience at the club and or Finance Director Ian Hargreaves who also has huge amounts of experience and years at the club - they will be fully aware of the rules and the clubs obligations

The accounts sign off, ultimate decisions on auditors and financial strategy fall under the control of the board where Pace is Chairman and major shareholder - Note both Mike G and John B are still board members retained for their knowledge of football we were told in Jan 2021

[forzagranata]

The two situations aren't even remotely comparable

I didn't say they were.

But you can be sure there will be lawyers looking at this news and wondering if there is benefit that can be gained for their clients - ie clubs who would like to get promoted to the Premier League. Doesn't mean it will happen but they will be alert to us now.

Again, the reason why people get their taxes, financial declarations, companies house documents and all the rest, submited on time is to avoid drawing attention to your finances and attracting the interest of investigations or indeed lawyers.

Its sloppy to not do this stuff on time if you are relatively straightforward club. If you have, let's say, complex finances, like Burnley's then its bafflingly incompetent.

[Chester Perry]

No clubs will be taking legal action, calm down.

wow, agreeing with each other twice in 1 hour - this really is a day to note in the annals of this board

[Rileybobs]

Might as well merge this with the snooze fest that is the takeover thread with everyone absolute desperate for Pace to fail.

Yeah let’s just pretend that being put under a transfer embargo for breaking EFL rules isn’t worthy of discussion and those who are are desperate for Pace to fail.

[Vegas Claret]

Yeah let’s just pretend that being put under a transfer embargo for breaking EFL rules isn’t worthy of discussion and those who are are desperate for Pace to fail.

Given the statement, and assuming you take it at face value (because there's no reason not to) it doesn't seem that big of a deal whatsoever but more that the EFL are box ticking

[Rileybobs]

Given the statement, and assuming you take it at face value (because there's no reason not to) it doesn't seem that big of a deal whatsoever but more that the EFL are box ticking

It seems like a fairly big deal, I’m not sure why so many are pretending it isn’t.

[NewClaret]

wow, agreeing with each other twice in 1 hour - this really is a day to note in the annals of this board

Funny post

[arise_sir_charge]

wow, agreeing with each other twice in 1 hour - this really is a day to note in the annals of this board

[Nonayforever]

For all the posters who think it will be fine , we now have new auditors, just a matter of time - then that's fine.

For the posters who think the accounts are late, new auditors after the late filing ? That rings massive bells.

Maybe the auditors have been replaced because they wouldn't pass the accounts.

[arise_sir_charge]

I didn't say they were.

But you can be sure there will be lawyers looking at this news and wondering if there is benefit that can be gained for their clients - ie clubs who would like to get promoted to the Premier League. Doesn't mean it will happen but they will be alert to us now.

Again, the reason why people get their taxes, financial declarations, companies house documents and all the rest, submited on time is to avoid drawing attention to your finances and attracting the interest of investigations or indeed lawyers.

Its sloppy to not do this stuff on time if you are relatively straightforward club. If you have, let's say, complex finances, like Burnley's then its bafflingly incompetent.

If anyone has tasked a lawyer with anything then they are wasting their money.

We’ve breached an administrative rule and been given the punishment that goes with that breach. All the rules will be agreed by the clubs.

Just one other point on this, people suggesting it taints the season etc,….does anyone look back at 2009 and think “it was good but that transfer embargo took the shine off”.
I don’t.

[Spijed]

Some of the stuff in these threads can be quite funny.

My favourite on this thread being Spijed saying that Alan Oace should shave rung someone to find out what to do.

Brilliant.

Ah yes. They've obviously been very professional in the matter haven't they?

Hence the transfer embargo.

Unless you think the EFL have got it all wrong. So what's your take on it?

[RVclaret]

It seems like a fairly big deal, I’m not sure why so many are pretending it isn’t.

Accounts have to be audited to be legitimate. They’ve changed auditors, and as a consequence the auditing process has been delayed. In the meantime, draft (preliminary) accounts have been submitted. Fully audited accounts will be submitted in due course. Nothing to worry about, for me not a big deal.

[jedi_master]

It seems like a fairly big deal, I’m not sure why so many are pretending it isn’t.

It’s a concerning reality that we’ve been embargoed, but until we hear differently the club have explained why it has happened and assured us it’s getting resolved swiftly and that there is nothing to worry about.

I just think until we hear any reason to truly worry then it is pointless doing so. I also agree that some are being needlessly dismissive, but that’s just the way of this messageboard. The reality is that the middle road is true here. Be aware of it, be unsure/concerned about it but know that the club have promised it’s supporters that it’s nothing of concern. I will take that at face value and we’ll see what the status is at the end of April (by which time we’ll be Champions and have just stuffed Blackburn at Ewood).

[Vegas Claret]

It seems like a fairly big deal, I’m not sure why so many are pretending it isn’t.

why is it a big deal ?

[boatshed bill]

If anyone has tasked a lawyer with anything then they are wasting their money.

We’ve breached an administrative rule and been given the punishment that goes with that breach. All the rules will be agreed by the clubs.

Just one other point on this, people suggesting it taints the season etc,….does anyone look back at 2009 and think “it was good but that transfer embargo took the shine off”.
I don’t.

No, but it didn't help the following season

[aggi]

Previous auditors (who signed off the last accounts) were Azets.

They're a top 10 firm and more than capable of doing Burnley's accounts. (They do Nottingham Forest's for instance).

I suspect those suggesting we've gone for big 4 are wide of the mark giving the current issues with them providing both audit and advisory services.

[Rileybobs]

Accounts have to be audited to be legitimate. They’ve changed auditors, and as a consequence the auditing process has been delayed. In the meantime, draft (preliminary) accounts have been submitted. Fully audited accounts will be submitted in due course. Nothing to worry about, for me not a big deal.

I understand why we’ve been punished and the explanation given for it. But it’s clearly a big deal to firstly break the rules of the competition, and secondly be punished by being put under a transfer embargo. This may all blow over and may be nothing to worry about, I’d say that’s more than likely the case, but undeniably a big issue nonetheless.

[clarethomer]

I didn't say they were.

But you can be sure there will be lawyers looking at this news and wondering if there is benefit that can be gained for their clients - ie clubs who would like to get promoted to the Premier League. Doesn't mean it will happen but they will be alert to us now.

Again, the reason why people get their taxes, financial declarations, companies house documents and all the rest, submited on time is to avoid drawing attention to your finances and attracting the interest of investigations or indeed lawyers.

Its sloppy to not do this stuff on time if you are relatively straightforward club. If you have, let's say, complex finances, like Burnley's then its bafflingly incompetent.

I think your imagination is getting the better of you at the moment.

[Rileybobs]

why is it a big deal ?

See post above.

[Nonayforever]

Accounts have to be audited to be legitimate. They’ve changed auditors, and as a consequence the auditing process has been delayed. In the meantime, draft (preliminary) accounts have been submitted. Fully audited accounts will be submitted in due course. Nothing to worry about, for me not a big deal.

That, with respect, is slightly glossing over the matter. It IS serious.

[Spijed]

why is it a big deal ?

Until it gets resolved we can't sign anyone, even free agents. So hopefully it gets resolved before the transfer window opens.

[arise_sir_charge]

No, but it didn't help the following season

In what way?

[Rileybobs]

To put it simply, it’s a big enough deal that the club have felt that they need to release a statement about it.

[Big Vinny K]

Can’t believe some people are putting this down to an administrative error.
If it was one week late because someone had forgot to upload the CT return then yep admin error.
But this is several months late in filing accounts and something has clearly gone wrong in the process of changing auditors. If you are going to change auditor and you are a pretty sizeable business like we are then you get assurances from the auditors that they can take on the business and still meet the year end deadlines.

In terms of the league we have broken a pretty significant rule. How can we complain about other teams if we cannot file the very information that is required to check whether you have broken the rules. I don’t for one minute think we are in breach of financial fair play but what I or anyone else thinks is completely irrelevant to the league and the process of them reviewing every clubs finances.

Hope it’s all resolved soon.

[boatshed bill]

In what way?

Because we were under an embargo?

[Chester Perry]

Given the statement, and assuming you take it at face value (because there's no reason not to) it doesn't seem that big of a deal whatsoever but more that the EFL are box ticking

from everything we have seen off the field from the ownership group, do you really think there is no need to not take this at face value

“We believe transparency in these matters is paramount and we want to explain why this has happened.”

just asking for friend who fell off his chair when he saw that

[arise_sir_charge]

Ah yes. They've obviously been very professional in the matter haven't they?

Hence the transfer embargo.

Unless you think the EFL have got it all wrong. So what's your take on it?

My views are on this thread.

You suggesting they ring someone is laughable.

[claret2018]

Previous auditors (who signed off the last accounts) were Azets.

They're a top 10 firm and more than capable of doing Burnley's accounts. (They do Nottingham Forest's for instance).

They are a top 10 firm in name only, they are the same small firm of accountants that were bought out by Azets a few years ago. In fact they’ve shrunk headcount considerably since the takeover.

A premier league or top end championship club shouldn’t be using a small local firm like this, they absolutely don’t have the resources to provide the required services. I say this as someone with first hand experience.

[warksclaret]

Transfer window doesn’t open till middle of June mate. Will be sorted one way or another by then

Yes fully aware of that, but I also know clubs and agents set up a close dialogue and moves can be approved in principle well before the window opens. I would be surprised if this had not already happened in the case of Maatsen, Tella and Beyer

[dsr]

If you change your auditors as a tactical way of moving the club forward, you do it after one set of accounts has been signed off but before the next year end. Not 5 months later. The most likely reason for changing so late is because you've fallen out with the old auditors.

Why would they fall out? Here's my guess. We all know that the club is owed ££150m or so from a holding company that has no cash. Perhaps the existing auditors refused to sign the accounts on the basis that the loan is a potential bad debt and should have its value written down?

[NewClaret]

I understand why we’ve been punished and the explanation given for it. But it’s clearly a big deal to firstly break the rules of the competition, and secondly be punished by being put under a transfer embargo. This may all blow over and may be nothing to worry about, I’d say that’s more than likely the case, but undeniably a big issue nonetheless.

Absolutely. Have we ever been put under such an embargo before? That in itself tells you what a big deal it is.

Pace and ALK, however impressed I’ve been with how they’ve developed the club, should be under no illusion that fans do not like the clubs reputation being damaged by incompetence like this.

If there are no problems with the accounts, it will blow over I’m sure. If there are, we have issues. We just have to hope and pray they get signed-off, submitted and accepted.

[Nori1958]

Can’t believe some people are putting this down to an administrative error.
If it was one week late because someone had forgot to upload the CT return then yep admin error.
But this is several months late in filing accounts and something has clearly gone wrong in the process of changing auditors. If you are going to change auditor and you are a pretty sizeable business like we are then you get assurances from the auditors that they can take on the business and still meet the year end deadlines.

In terms of the league we have broken a pretty significant rule. How can we complain about other teams if we cannot file the very information that is required to check whether you have broken the rules. I don’t for one minute think we are in breach of financial fair play but what I or anyone else thinks is completely irrelevant to the league and the process of them reviewing every clubs finances.

Hope it’s all resolved soon.

So the club are telling lies?

[taio]

To put it simply, it’s a big enough deal that the club have felt that they need to release a statement about it.

Yes exactly. And I suspect a big enough deal for it to receive fairly widespread media coverage in the coming days. The club's position is clear including that it will be swiftly resolved. Hopefully they are right, but in the meantime some supporters will understandably raise legitimate questions about whether there are factors that we aren't aware of. Let's see what the EFL reports in the coming days (presume something hence the club's proactive release).

[kentonclaret]

To put it simply, it’s a big enough deal that the club have felt that they need to release a statement about it.

Since several news outlets (BBC, The Guardian) have articles about this on their website it would sound alarm bells for many if BFC remained silent on the story.

[forzagranata]

I think your imagination is getting the better of you at the moment.

Ok. Let's just break this down.

We have been placed under a transfer embargo which means the EFL has found us guilty of "misconduct" - that is the language the EFL uses in their regulations.

According to EFL rules in this situation, as well as getting our house in order, the EFL can ask us to do certain things - such as:

"The Club shall at The League’s request submit such further documentary evidence as The League shall require (including but not limited to Future Financial Information). The League shall have the power (but not the obligation) to commission an external audit for purposes of assisting in its assessment under 16.10.2."

So our misconduct means that we could now be subject to an external audit by the EFL.

But it's fine, nothing to see here.