Wigan Points Deduction

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Big Vinny is completely correct.


I'm not entirely sure what the ages of supporters has to do with a club facing sanctions or not.
All fans will be disappointed but hey, that's the price you pay for the good times that were achieved by breaking the rules.

Just trying to tug on heart strings, "won't somebody think of the children"

[Big Vinny K]

Some children are fans.do they deserve to be punished, fair enough with adults you might have a valid point, children aren't in control & aren't consciously aware of the ramifications irresponsible management brings. We often don't think of the younger 1s because they aren't spending money of the same magnitude, money aside, feelings & emotions matter & some of them children will grow up & also have children & ultimately generations could miss out through no fault of their own.

Maybe set up a new team just for the children and let that team carry on cheating in the premier league but deduct points from the old team which will remain for the adults ?
When those children reach 18 years of age set up a 3rd team for their kids and deduct points for the 2nd cheating team.
And so on……for generations to come.

After all…….children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way.

[Jakubclaret]

Maybe set up a new team just for the children and let that team carry on cheating in the premier league but deduct points from the old team which will remain for the adults ?
When those children reach 18 years of age set up a 3rd team for their kids and deduct points for the 2nd cheating team.
And so on……for generations to come.

After all…….children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way.

I'm just saying it's not the children's fault & children are part of the fans as an whole entity, some degrees of liability can be mitigated by minors, I just find it ingnorant & lacking in sensitivity lumping them all together, for sure adults are fair game open season, but kids spending their pocket money & all this crap happening you can feel a sense of sympathy for them, well I can.

[Big Vinny K]

I'm just saying it's not the children's fault & children are part of the fans as an whole entity, some degrees of liability can be mitigated by minors, I just find it ingnorant & lacking in sensitivity lumping them all together, for sure adults are fair game open season, but kids spending their pocket money & all this crap happening you can feel a sense of sympathy for them, well I can.

Agree 100%
There’s also the OAPs as well - spending all of their pension.

We could just punish those fans between 18 and 60 and who earn in excess of £40k p.a. ?

Anyhoo it’s been a lovely chat as always.

[Jakubclaret]

Agree 100%
There’s also the OAPs as well - spending all of their pension.

We could just punish those fans between 18 and 60 and who earn in excess of £40k p.a. ?

Anyhoo it’s been a lovely chat as always.

There's never a shortage of sensible solutions where you are concerned, credit where credits due.

[evensteadiereddie]

You are the type of person who obviously callously disregards children's feelngs, it comes as no surprise.

And you have made yet another moronic personal comment, which also comes as no surprise.

Having spent forty years as a teacher and Head of Year NOT callously disregarding children's feelings, your observation makes you look sillier than ever.

I look forward to hearing how you believe a guilty football club can be sanctioned where only adults are affected and their sons and daughters are not.
Should be good.

[Jakubclaret]

And you have made yet another moronic personal comment, which also comes as no surprise.

Having spent forty years as a teacher and Head of Year NOT callously disregarding children's feelings, your observation makes you look sillier than ever.

I look forward to hearing how you believe a guilty football club can be sanctioned where only adults are affected and their sons and daughters are not.
Should be good.

I'm saying the children aren't to blame for irresponsible management, nothing more nothing less, the kids play no part in a club going bust but sadly they become victims through other people's actions & wrong decisions. I don't feel sorry for the adult Wigan fans but the kids attached to Wigan I do because it's not their doing.

[Big Vinny K]

14 year old Wigan fan - not his fault the owners mismanaged the clubs finances

18 year adult Wigan fan - send them to the gallows

[Jakubclaret]

That's a far fetched scenario, I'm simply saying children play no part in a club any club going bust, I'd like to see some sort of a argument presented that demonstrates the children are culpable.

[Big Vinny K]

And exactly which adult fans are culpable you think ?

Clearly it’s not about fan culpability.

All fans - children or adults - have no impact on how a club manages its finances. Yet if the team does well because the owners are spending money they don’t have buying players they can’t afford then those fans will be cheering their team and enjoying the success. When it goes pear shaped those same fans will suffer.

It’s not really that hard a situation to grasp - even for you.

[evensteadiereddie]

That's a far fetched scenario, I'm simply saying children play no part in a club any club going bust, I'd like to see some sort of a argument presented that demonstrates the children are culpable.

Children are as culpable or not as the adult fans in any guilty club's behaviour.
I'm still curious as to how you see a club's adult fans being affected by the club's sanctions yet the younger ones not.

[Jakubclaret]

And exactly which adult fans are culpable you think ?

Clearly it’s not about fan culpability.

All fans - children or adults - have no impact on how a club manages its finances. Yet if the team does well because the owners are spending money they don’t have buying players they can’t afford them those fans will be cheering their team and enjoying the success. When it goes pear shaped those same fans will suffer.

It’s not really that hard a situation to grasp - even for you.

But the children have no input to influence any sort of direction, so it's just deserts winning the FA cup & potentially becoming extinct, I'm sure the children's cognitive reasoning will understand the trade off

[Jakubclaret]

Children are as culpable or not as the adult fans in any guilty club's behaviour.
I'm still curious as to how you see a club's adult fans being affected by the club's sanctions yet the younger ones not.

Both are affected but I'm saying 1 didn't ask for it by their actions, adults & children mentally reason & function differently, the exposure to trauma is more forceful.

[evensteadiereddie]

They are all football fans, taking the good times with the bad.
Not a bad lesson in life if you learn that the good things that came your way through cheating must be paid for.
I don't think, to be honest, kids or anybody else would be permanently damaged by their club facing sanctions. They need to adjust their priorities in life if so.
Upset maybe, angry possibly, but it's hardly life changing, is it?
Anyway, what is your suggestion?

[Jakubclaret]

I despair genuinely, have a good day.

[Big Vinny K]

But the children have no input to influence any sort of direction, so it's just deserts winning the FA cup & potentially becoming extinct, I'm sure the children's cognitive reasoning will understand the trade off

And as already asked (but you chose to ignore) what input or influence can adult supporters have to owner’s financial decisions ?

And again as already asked (and again you ignore) what is the alternative ?

I’ve already come up with a ridiculous solution to your ridiculous point….another one would be to ban children from attending all football games as they don’t have the capacity to cope with their team being relegated or deducted points

[Bordeauxclaret]

I’m pretty sure Jakubclaret is a reincarnation of ablueclaret.

[evensteadiereddie]

I despair genuinely, have a good day.

Ah, so you have no alternative suggestions to the current methods of punishment.
Fair enough, I'm not surprised.

[ClaretTony]

How on earth has this thread turned into petty arguments?

It's pathetic, nothing other than pathetic which is ruining this message board.

[evensteadiereddie]

To be fair, Tony, I'm genuinely trying to establish whether the guy has any viable alternatives to fines or points deductions as sanctions against clubs that cheat.
I haven't any and am, therefore, happy to see the current situation continue - unless, of course, someone could persuade me otherwise.

[ALP]

How on earth has this thread turned into petty arguments?

It's pathetic, nothing other than pathetic which is ruining this message board.

Goes on far too much, wrecks what can be a superb place.

[jollyjack]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/vid ... 477470.cms

[NL Claret]

How on earth has this thread turned into petty arguments?

It's pathetic, nothing other than pathetic which is ruining this message board.

Standard CT, I opened the Nottingham thread yesterday to find out probably 90% of it was nothing to do with Nottingham. I rarely open many threads these days due to petty arguments.

[evensteadiereddie]

Again, to be fair, I was the one who asked for the Nottingham thread to be closed because all respect for those killed had gone.
This is slightly different.
For my sins, I live in area with many Derby fans and most of them still persist with this "Why should the fans suffer?" even after their club cheated their way to Championship survival at the expense of other clubs a couple of seasons back.
I'm interested whether other sanctions could be applied hence my participation in the discussion and asking the poster with one completely unworkable idea if he'd got anything else.
Apparently he hasn't.
That's about it really.

[Jakubclaret]

It's not about finding solutions or alternative methods, it's a simple comment that the kids aren't to blame which the post I originally responded to appeared to be indirectly/in a roundabout way apportioning part of the blame. The kids aren't to blame, nothing more nothing less, I didn't ask need or want any bickering, I'm actually surprised I'm having to defend/point out that's it's unfair on the kids that the club could go bust & potentially it could have a knock on effect with other generations of kids if the worst was to happen.

[evensteadiereddie]

The kids aren't to blame, their parents aren't to blame.
I'm sure they'll all get over it whether it be at Derby, Everton, City and so on.
The main thing for me is the cheats get hammered.

[Jakubclaret]

The kids aren't to blame, their parents aren't to blame.
I'm sure they'll all get over it whether it be at Derby, Everton, City and so on.
The main thing for me is the cheats get hammered.

They will get over it they won't have any other choice, it doesn't diminish the sympathy I have for them though, I guess it's being a decent human being, I agree I hope the club's get the book thrown at them, you can want that also & still feel a degree of sympathy for some people involved with the club.

[evensteadiereddie]

We can feel as sorry as we like but the cheating clubs should get clobbered.

[ClaretTony]

Sale of Wigan has been completed

[bfcmik]

Some children are fans.do they deserve to be punished, fair enough with adults you might have a valid point, children aren't in control & aren't consciously aware of the ramifications irresponsible management brings. We often don't think of the younger 1s because they aren't spending money of the same magnitude, money aside, feelings & emotions matter & some of them children will grow up & also have children & ultimately generations could miss out through no fault of their own.

You are the type of person who obviously callously disregards children's feelngs, it comes as no surprise.

Are you being deliberately confrontational? Is your argument that NO wrongdoer should be punished if they have children? Not every Wigan fan has been complicit or has deliberately ignored the proceeds of overspending but they are operating in an illegal manner by not paying wages (which hurts players children and families) or taxes (which hurts all of us), but enough have. Plus young fans of other clubs have been equally hurt/punished by Wigan's theft of their potential promotion, or FA Cup, or years in the PL - should they not be allowed a thought?

If only the world worked in such a way that only the guilty get punished and the innocents get rewarded. Sounds like a positive Utopia

[evensteadiereddie]

Absolutely and as I said earlier, it's not a bad lesson to learn that if you cheat and get found out, there will be a price to pay.
On a side issue, I'd also argue that, given the current and potential state of this country, a child's being upset at his or her football team being sanctioned for operating illegally is probably one of the least of their worries.

[Jakubclaret]

Are you being deliberately confrontational? Is your argument that NO wrongdoer should be punished if they have children? Not every Wigan fan has been complicit or has deliberately ignored the proceeds of overspending but they are operating in an illegal manner by not paying wages (which hurts players children and families) or taxes (which hurts all of us), but enough have. Plus young fans of other clubs have been equally hurt/punished by Wigan's theft of their potential promotion, or FA Cup, or years in the PL - should they not be allowed a thought?

If only the world worked in such a way that only the guilty get punished and the innocents get rewarded. Sounds like a positive Utopia

I'm not interested in going into the ins & outs of clubs getting punished & whether they deserve it or not or what they deserve, I'm simply saying I feel sorry for the children attached to the club's if the clubs become extinct, I'm starting to feel as if I shouldn't feel sorry for the children who have no blame in whatever happens. I feel sorry for the children who could potentially lose the football club they love that's all there is to it. I'm not interested in anything else apart from a degree of sympathy for some innocent children, god struth!

[sleeperclaret]

I love how, after being called out for pointless bickering, it carried on whilst ignoring the post highlighting that the club has been sold which almost invalidated the concerns being argued over.

Almost like winning the argument is more important than the principles being argued over...

[evensteadiereddie]

The bickering did not continue. What happened was a continuation of the debate.
As far as I can see, nobody has come up with a viable alternative solution to fines and points deduction and we are agreed that fans of all ages will suffer if things go awry.

For what it's worth, the thread is actually titled "Wigan Points Deduction". The clue's in the title so don't be surprised if posters discuss er, points deductions.

[aclaretinstevenage]

How on earth has this thread turned into petty arguments?

It's pathetic, nothing other than pathetic which is ruining this message board.

Usual suspects Tony usual suspects.

[LS7]

If you’re looking for bores who always have to have the last word then you’ve come to the right place.