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AGENT_CLARET
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by AGENT_CLARET » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:35 am
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:26 am
No it doesn't but a ballot goes against the loyalty system - a system that they clearly report on the club's website will be used for ALL away games and will change in terms of points required for small allocations/big demand etc.
The loyalty system is broken, its abused by people with the points needed and they pass on tickets to those that don't have the required points, it rewards fans that have had a season ticket for year's because you hardly get away points, so home loyalty fans get away tickets even if they haven't been away for years, younger fan's that don't have a relative to use their loyalty points miss out because they were born only 8 years ago and will never catch up if keeps going up
Like I said the loyalty system is broken, the ballot is the way forward, all season ticket apply for a away game if successful you can't apply again for the next two away games that way it might even itself out a little I don't know
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Lancasterclaret
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by Lancasterclaret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:36 am
daveisaclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:33 am
It's two wrongs not making a right. Rovers making a decision out of cowardice doesn't change Burnley making one out of incompetence.
No, I get that, but the current system just reinforces the problem (as you have just highlighted by only going to one away game (I'm very similar to be honest, but I've done a few more this season)
The ballot doesn't solve the issue btw, but it does mean that people with 6000 points (which is still a very impressive amount of support for the clarets, as not everyone can make all the games due to RL issues) have a chance for games like this
I have two kids who want to go, but only I have over 6000 points - and that is a problem for many more people than just me
The loyalty point system needs reform as well btw
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bumba
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by bumba » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:37 am
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:26 am
No it doesn't but a ballot goes against the loyalty system - a system that they clearly report on the club's website will be used for ALL away games and will change in terms of points required for small allocations/big demand etc.
They also had the option of looking at how many away tickets purchased this season.
Scrap the loyalty system and ballot every season ticket holder for every game.
Fairest way.
People with points moan if they don't get one, people without enough points moan they don't get the chance to go.
Fairest way is to treat ALL season ticket holders the same.
Ballot all for every game
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Goody1975
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by Goody1975 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:38 am
I have nearly 10,000 points but now I know that people with more points than me are missing out, it does not sit well with me.
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jrgbfc
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by jrgbfc » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:39 am
Basic common sense that for certain games this season the points threshold needed to be upped. Should have started at 10 thousand for this one.
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1989_claret
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by 1989_claret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:39 am
Fairest way is to have a rolling points system for away games that rewards more recent loyalty allowing younger Clarets to build points and also rewards people who go to the majority of away games.
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Jjjack
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by Jjjack » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:39 am
AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:35 am
The loyalty system is broken, its abused by people with the points needed and they pass on tickets to those that don't have the required points, it rewards fans that have had a season ticket for year's because you hardly get away points, so home loyalty fans get away tickets even if they haven't been away for years, younger fan's that don't have a relative to use their loyalty points miss out because they were born only 8 years ago and will never catch up if keeps going up
Like I said the loyalty system is broken, the ballot is the way forward, all season ticket apply for a away game if successful you can't apply again for the next two away games that way it might even itself out a little I don't know
What a terrible idea, the obvious way forward is either away games accruing more points and changing the bandings. Or changing the bandings to include x amount of away games in a certain time frame and cascade it through the groups.
For example priority 1 could be:
8000 points + 1 away game
6000 points + 3 away games
4000 points + 5 away games
etc etc.
Every time we have high demand games you seem to want to limit the amount of people can go to away games instead of recognising that this is the first in a long time we have had this problem.
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AGENT_CLARET
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by AGENT_CLARET » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:40 am
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:26 am
No it doesn't but a ballot goes against the loyalty system - a system that they clearly report on the club's website will be used for ALL away games and will change in terms of points required for small allocations/big demand etc.
They also had the option of looking at how many away tickets purchased this season.
Tony I agree with the "how many away tickets purchased this season" idea, those that have been to most away games should of been rewarded with the first option to buy, I say this even though I'm not in this bracket at all because I'm limited to how many I can attend because of work
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Jjjack
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by Jjjack » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:42 am
Its striking a balance to ensure that away games don't become a closed shop of people buying tickets and selling them on to ensure they have priority for other games.
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Lancasterclaret
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by Lancasterclaret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:42 am
Goody1975 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:38 am
I have nearly 10,000 points but now I know that people with more points than me are missing out, it does not sit well with me.
Unfortunately, the logical conclusion of that is that the older you are, the more chance you have of going
That isn't fair either
People are 100% committed to Burnley FC and go all the time, without any hassale or issues, and I fully respect that
I wish I could think of a fairer way btw, but what someone above said about a ballot for all S/T ticket holders for all away games at least gives OAPs, adults and kids an equal chance
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Goody1975
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by Goody1975 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:42 am
jrgbfc wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:39 am
Basic common sense that for certain games this season the points threshold needed to be upped. Should have started at 10 thousand for this one.
The amounts of tickets on offer should be taken into account with the setting of required points.
Luton should start at 10,000 points plus.
Preston probably start at 5,000.
Otherwise the loyalty points system is useless.
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Dyched
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by Dyched » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:42 am
What’s the issue here really?
Some people have more free time every weekends/midweek to travel around watching Burnley picking up points.
Some people work weekends/midweeks but get to every game they physically can be at but pick up less points.
Having more free time doesn’t give you more than a right than others.
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NottsClaret
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by NottsClaret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:42 am
daveisaclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:32 am
The ballot is a complete farce.
I found out yesterday I have over 8,000 points. The reason I didn't know until yesterday is because I haven't been to an away match since Leeds last season and I was getting a ticket for Rotherham. The idea I could have just cast a stone in for the Rovers game with people who've been to every away this season and people who always go to every away is absolutely ridiculous. They should know exactly how many people have how many points and set thresholds accordingly.
It's true that. It's very rarely an issue, you can usually get tickets for any away game you want really. The ballot seems grossly unfair when you see some of the people on here not getting tickets. But then the loyalty system is also very open to abuse - and also unfair on a lot of current away fans, especially younger lads. As ever with this one, not sure what the answer is.
I probably agree with CT in this instance, you can't be changing the rules for one game. Not that I wanted to go or applied to the ballot anyway.
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daveisaclaret
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by daveisaclaret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:43 am
Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:36 am
No, I get that, but the current system just reinforces the problem (as you have just highlighted by only going to one away game (I'm very similar to be honest, but I've done a few more this season)
The ballot doesn't solve the issue btw, but it does mean that people with 6000 points (which is still a very impressive amount of support for the clarets, as not everyone can make all the games due to RL issues) have a chance for games like this
I have two kids who want to go, but only I have over 6000 points - and that is a problem for many more people than just me
The loyalty point system needs reform as well btw
Loads of problems with the loyalty point system but they're all still problems with this ballot which then adds extra problems on top.
It 100% should be rolling points to allow kids to age in reasonably quickly but that's a separate issue. This ballot doesn't make it any easier for people who aren't old enough to meet the arbitrary 6000 threshold.
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Goody1975
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by Goody1975 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:44 am
Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:42 am
Unfortunately, the logical conclusion of that is that the older you are, the more chance you have of going
That isn't fair either
People are 100% committed to Burnley FC and go all the time, without any hassale or issues, and I fully respect that
I wish I could think of a fairer way btw, but what someone above said about a ballot for all S/T ticket holders for all away games at least gives OAPs, adults and kids an equal chance
It probably does need a slight change but just because someone who is young and has spent the past couple of seasons following the team everywhere doesn't make them a more dedicated supporter than someone who did the same thing, ten or twenty years ago.
We all served our apprenticeship in this way.
With age comes responsibility and that may be in your personal or work life. Does that mean your history as a supporter is wiped out because of this?
Last edited by
Goody1975 on Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jjjack
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by Jjjack » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:45 am
If they wanted to ballot this game they should have had a rolling ballot down the points. Identify at which x000 points we have less than 2000 supporters, offer a ticket to all of them, and then offer the remaining tickets ballot style down a thousand points until they are all gone.
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Lancasterclaret
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by Lancasterclaret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:46 am
Dyched wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:42 am
What’s the issue here really?
Some people have more free time every weekends/midweek to travel around watching Burnley picking up points.
Some people work weekends/midweeks but get to every game they physically can be at but pick up less points.
Having more free time doesn’t give you more than a right than others.
This in a nutshell
I've done all the games when I was younger (and we were s**t!) and it doesn't sit well with me that because of that, I can now get tickets when I want for away games ahead of people who go to loads more than I do as well
Its a horrible dilemma for the club to be honest
How they solve it without annoying everyone is a proper challenge
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Lancasterclaret
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by Lancasterclaret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:46 am
Must add at this stage that I never applied for the ballot for this one, and I haven't got a ticket for it, nor did I really want one!
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Lancasterclaret
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by Lancasterclaret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:48 am
Goody1975 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:44 am
It probably does need a slight change but just because someone who is young and has spent the past couple of seasons following the team everywhere doesn't make them a more dedicated supporter than someone who did the same thing, ten or twenty years ago.
We all served our apprenticeship in this way.
With age comes responsibility and that may be in your personal or work life. Does that mean your history as a supporter is wiped out because of this?
No, but you've also got to bring along the younger fans as well
It can't be a closed shop for us old farts! (and yes, I'm well aware how to game the system so that kids can go, but that isn't right either)
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Nori1958
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by Nori1958 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:49 am
Goody1975 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:42 am
The amounts of tickets on offer should be taken into account with the setting of required points.
Luton should start at 10,000 points plus.
Preston probably start at 5,000.
Otherwise the loyalty points system is useless.
But then it's the same people getting tickets, and all others missing out for big games
I've over 9k points, so for 95% of games I could get tickets if required. On small allocation with high demand I would have no problems with a ballot, as it would spread the tickets around
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dougcollins
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by dougcollins » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:50 am
Ballot every away game?
Good grief.
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Jjjack
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by Jjjack » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:51 am
Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:48 am
No, but you've also got to bring along the younger fans as well
It can't be a closed shop for us old farts! (and yes, I'm well aware how to game the system so that kids can go, but that isn't right either)
I think reserving x% of some games for a 'dads n lads' type ticket would be a good idea to allow people to travel with younger children. Before you ask me what to do if you have 2 children my answer is pick a favourite.
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AGENT_CLARET
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by AGENT_CLARET » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:51 am
Another problem with the stupid loyalty system is not everyone can log on to the ticket buying page at 10am during the day, some jobs don't allow mobile phones or laptops.
Ballot for all season ticket holder's and those that are successful can't join the next two ballots
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AGENT_CLARET
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by AGENT_CLARET » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:52 am
dougcollins wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:50 am
Ballot every away game?
Good grief.
Why not
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Lancasterclaret
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by Lancasterclaret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:52 am
dougcollins wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:50 am
Ballot every away game?
Good grief.
Just a suggestion Doug!
There aren't many of us with loads of points who want to see change, and that is a bit disappointing
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Jjjack
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by Jjjack » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:53 am
Nori1958 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:49 am
But then it's the same people getting tickets, and all others missing out for big games
I've over 9k points, so for 95% of games I could get tickets if required. On small allocation with high demand I would have no problems with a ballot, as it would spread the tickets around
I have 9K points and enjoy traveling to away games, I personally would take massive offense at suddenly having to enter a ballot after (willingly) spending so much money and time following them.
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bumba
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by bumba » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:57 am
dougcollins wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:50 am
Ballot every away game?
Good grief.
Either ballot it or open it up to all season ticket holders from the start of sales.
Ive had a season ticket for over 30 years but it should be fair to all.
if we reward the elder loyal fans then how do we encourage the next generation to carry on supporting the club?
If kids can't get to away games they'll stop following the club
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jedi_master
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by jedi_master » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:58 am
I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t extend the points threshold on games like this (and previously Luton). Just Jack it up 10k for the first week or so of sales or something.
I was never going to this, but it’s bizarre to me that I could presumably have applied (I have 9k) and had as much chance as someone with 12-13k+. The club either stands by it’s loyalty system entirely by creating another tier, or does a total rethink. Granted it’s a rare occurrence when we have an issue like this, but surely that’s just making the 10k tier even less of an issue to create really.
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Rick_Muller
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by Rick_Muller » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:58 am
surely the sensible thing is to monetise the away tickets in a way the club can also profit from popular away games - have a paid season ticket membership scheme which can prioritise members above other Season ticket holders for away games. Show them the Money...
Of course, a condition of membership would be that you actually do purchase a certain percentage of away tickets (perhaps 50%) or you lose your membership rights and revert to being a normal season ticket holder.
(Remember though that this would only replace a working loyalty scheme which is only a problem for 1 maybe 2 games a season [normal season - this season not included as it has been exceptional] so I am unsure as to the actual value of a new scheme)
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Nori1958
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by Nori1958 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:59 am
Jjjack wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:53 am
I have 9K points and enjoy traveling to away games, I personally would take massive offense at suddenly having to enter a ballot after (willingly) spending so much money and time following them.
Some people travel 500 miles to home games, which is probably more than someone living in Burnley travels to away games, should they not be allowed tickets if they wish?
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Goody1975
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by Goody1975 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:00 pm
Nori1958 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:49 am
But then it's the same people getting tickets, and all others missing out for big games
I've over 9k points, so for 95% of games I could get tickets if required. On small allocation with high demand I would have no problems with a ballot, as it would spread the tickets around
I don't agree with a full ballot but maybe a certain percentage yes.
If it goes like other clubs we'll end up with a platinum club where some supporters pay extra each season for first priority on tickets.
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claretrobo1
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by claretrobo1 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:00 pm
Absolutely ******* myself at the amount of grown men throwing their toys out of the pram that they haven’t got a ticket. Neither have I by the looks of it, it is what it is. We can’t all get them
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Jjjack
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by Jjjack » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:00 pm
jedi_master wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:58 am
I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t extend the points threshold on games like this (and previously Luton). Just Jack it up 10k for the first week or so of sales or something.
I was never going to this, but it’s bizarre to me that I could presumably have applied (I have 9k) and had as much chance as someone with 12-13k+. The club either stands by it’s loyalty system entirely by creating another tier, or does a total rethink. Granted it’s a rare occurrence when we have an issue like this, but surely that’s just making the 10k tier even less of an issue to create really.
Turning the loyalty points system into a more dynamic one that changes with anticipated demand and size of the away end ie 1000 for Luton vs 6000 for Preston is the easiest way for the club to improve the loyalty points system.
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alwaysaclaret
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by alwaysaclaret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:01 pm
The first requirement imo should be actual proof that your a current season ticket holder, it's nailed on that there will be people at deadwood that possess one.
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Burt
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by Burt » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:02 pm
Leisure wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:13 am
Their tickets will show on their account, not yours.
If that's the case Pete how do they check? I applied for my wife and son through Family & friends as they don't have online ticketing accounts but they both have 6k+ points
My email states ballet successful, lead applicant x 1
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gandhisflipflop
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by gandhisflipflop » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:02 pm
Maybe now it affects some in the ‘in alright jack’ club for the first time, it will highlight to the club the pitfalls of this useless system.
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quoonbeatz
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by quoonbeatz » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:03 pm
Give priority to all those who have a season ticket for the current season, then general sale if they get that far.
You will not get a fairer, more inclusive system than that.
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AGENT_CLARET
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by AGENT_CLARET » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:06 pm
Jjjack wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:53 am
I have 9K points and enjoy traveling to away games, I personally would take massive offense at suddenly having to enter a ballot after (willingly) spending so much money and time following them.
What about the kids that don't abuse the system by using grandads loyalty points how do they catch up, the loyalty points given are 99% built up by having a season ticket yet the rewards are for away games, it's broken it gets abused and the younger fans that don't cheat the system can't never ever catch up they keep rising the loyalty points total. The system might of worked back in the day but it certainly doesn't now, look at all the kids at these games they don't have 6k points I've seen people who work at the club that don't have a season ticket but they are at the game with there children
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colne-claret
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by colne-claret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:06 pm
Anyone had email yet?
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alwaysaclaret
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by alwaysaclaret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:06 pm
quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:03 pm
Give priority to all those who have a season ticket for the current season, then general sale if they get that far.
You will not get a fairer, more inclusive system than that.
Couldn't agree more with this statement.
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Dyched
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by Dyched » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:08 pm
Jjjack wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:00 pm
Turning the loyalty points system into a more dynamic one that changes with anticipated demand and size of the away end ie 1000 for Luton vs 6000 for Preston is the easiest way for the club to improve the loyalty points system.
Some can’t commit to a round trip from Burnley to Luton to get points to get to a game 20 minutes down the road.
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Leisure
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by Leisure » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:08 pm
Well for lots of games a ballot isn't necessary, as everyone who wants a ticket will get one. This is based on our previous seasons in the PL.
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D8BFC
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by D8BFC » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:08 pm
Anyone had an email yet??? They’ve probably scheduled in and forgot we’ve moved to BST
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Leisure
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by Leisure » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:09 pm
colne-claret wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:06 pm
Anyone had email yet?
Not me.
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Jjjack
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by Jjjack » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:09 pm
AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:06 pm
What about the kids that don't abuse the system by using grandads loyalty points how do they catch up, the loyalty points given are 99% built up by having a season ticket yet the rewards are for away games, it's broken it gets abused and the younger fans that don't cheat the system can't never ever catch up they keep rising the loyalty points total. The system might of worked back in the day but it certainly doesn't now, look at all the kids at these games they don't have 6k points I've seen people who work at the club that don't have a season ticket but they are at the game with there children
I support a more dynamic priority system if you look at my previous replies, but it has to strike a right balance of allowing others to travel without hindering those who already do. I think the problem will sort itself out in a few seasons and our away following this year has just been a mixture of seeing us win away for the first time in a fair while, the football rebrand, and playing at grounds we haven't been to in a long time.
This user liked this post: AGENT_CLARET
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Jjjack
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by Jjjack » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:10 pm
Leisure wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:09 pm
Not me.
Me neither.
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1989_claret
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by 1989_claret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:11 pm
Keep refreshing purchase history in hope it they were updated individually throughout the morning but midday has gone by and no luck still so think it's a loss for me.
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Leisure
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by Leisure » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:11 pm
quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:03 pm
Give priority to all those who have a season ticket for the current season, then general sale if they get that far.
You will not get a fairer, more inclusive system than that.
So no acknowledgment/recognition etc for fans who travel regularly to away games?
These 2 users liked this post: Sham69 AGENT_CLARET
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Oldparkwood
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by Oldparkwood » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:11 pm
AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:06 pm
What about the kids that don't abuse the system by using grandads loyalty points how do they catch up, the loyalty points given are 99% built up by having a season ticket yet the rewards are for away games, it's broken it gets abused and the younger fans that don't cheat the system can't never ever catch up they keep rising the loyalty points total. The system might of worked back in the day but it certainly doesn't now, look at all the kids at these games they don't have 6k points I've seen people who work at the club that don't have a season ticket but they are at the game with there children
I can assure you that people that work at the club and have for many years have not had priority with this ballot!