Gary Lineker

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Rowls
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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Rowls » Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:32 pm

roperclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:16 pm
And this is the saddest thing. With all the problems people are dealing with, stopping a few desperate people trying to get themselves a better life instead of properly sorting the country out, might, just might keep them in power. I despair for voters priorities 😔
It's not just "a few" people. It was over 40,000 last year.

Neither is it about the number of people - it's the fact that illegal immigration completely undermines the entire migration system and rewards law breakers.

These small boats are run by criminal gangs and the money they raise goes back into their criminal networks - drug gangs, street violence and crime are the net winners. If the problem isn't tackled, it will become a vicious circle of self sustaining problems well beyond the problem of illegal immigration.

It's reasonable to wary about rhetoric as you are but I think this is misplaced. Net immigration is at record high levels yet I don't see many people bothered about this. That's because it's not a major public concern - it's mainly due to Britain being a place where people want to come a live and work.

However, people are -largely- concerned about the small boat crossings. Why are people concerned about one and not the other? Because they are two diffferent things. Completely different kettle of fish.

If a country cannot control its borders, they might as well not be there.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by SocialistClaret » Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:04 pm

dsr wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:51 pm
I see the Lineker approach to sophistry isn't copyright. I presume you don't actually mean that the camps in Rwanda are akin to Belsen, Auschwitz, and the rest? Are you using language designed to give that impression while keeping an escape route to say that you didn't mean the term in the way people would typically understand it?

Something I find weird is that you clearly know i'm not calling it a death camp but you pre-empt that clarification by accusing me of creating a rhetorical "escape route".

It's quite similar to the tactic used against Lineker who clearly only referred to language used being similar and yet all the Tories seemed to go on about was how Lineker was calling them nazis and accused him of duplicity when anyone pointed out that no, he didn't.

I offer you this promise, when i think the Tories are setting up death camps i'll be crystal clear about such an accusation. Now don't try to put words in my mouth again, please and thank you.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:14 pm

martin_p wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:03 pm
It would be in vain because it’s no true so there’s unlikely to be one. The last article you posted completely contradicted the stance you claimed it supported.
Here comes the circle runner 1 day you might learn.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/16628 ... udents-spt

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jellybean » Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:51 pm

roperclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:16 pm
And this is the saddest thing. With all the problems people are dealing with, stopping a few desperate people trying to get themselves a better life instead of properly sorting the country out, might, just might keep them in power. I despair for voters priorities 😔
As an example, there are several videos on Twitter of groups of lads in the bookies betting, some people assuming they're laundering while others assuming they're spending money given by us tax payers. I guess the perception with such videos is they don't look like vulnerable persecuted victims desperate for a better life and I fear it won't be long before there are community conflicts in what is a very angry and wound up world right now.

And before everyone says oh they're allowed to go to a betting shop, I'm just getting to get across the difference in what people are seeing in their communities and the picture Mr linekar is painting.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by SocialistClaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:58 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:14 pm
Here comes the circle runner 1 day you might learn.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/16628 ... udents-spt
"Brexit Britain a more attractive destination than ever, latest immigration stats show" is not the same as "Number 1 destination"

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by SocialistClaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:01 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:19 pm
I don't agree with immigration & you do it's as simple as that, you can give me all the positive reasons & I can give you all the negative reasons & at the end of the day we still wouldn't agree.
I'm curious, if nothing can possibly change your mind then why are you even involving yourself in this discussion?

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:07 am

Jellybean wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:51 pm
As an example, there are several videos on Twitter of groups of lads in the bookies betting, some people assuming they're laundering while others assuming they're spending money given by us tax payers. I guess the perception with such videos is they don't look like vulnerable persecuted victims desperate for a better life and I fear it won't be long before there are community conflicts in what is a very angry and wound up world right now.

And before everyone says oh they're allowed to go to a betting shop, I'm just getting to get across the difference in what people are seeing in their communities and the picture Mr linekar is painting.
As an example, this is how low our cognitive and critical thinking has got as a society that this Jellybean character can come on a public forum with such confidence and conviction and be so misinformed and factually wrong yet have genuinely no idea of much dogsh*t they are spewing

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:58 am

SocialistClaret wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:58 am
"Brexit Britain a more attractive destination than ever, latest immigration stats show" is not the same as "Number 1 destination"
In terms of size vs population density I'd respectfully disagree.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:00 am

SocialistClaret wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:01 am
I'm curious, if nothing can possibly change your mind then why are you even involving yourself in this discussion?
Ok then we'll switch it I'm assuming from the content of your posts that you are pro immigration will anything change your mind? I'm equally as curious.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Gaia » Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:16 am

Why aren't these asylum claims being processed? Because the government are manufacturing a crisis in the hope it will win them an election.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Rick_Muller » Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:18 am

Who’d have thought a thread about a celebrity and tax would create so much vitriol and racist connotations amongst a long list of usual suspects.

I’m not surprised at all, just surprised that it’s not locked or deleted yet.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Gaia » Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:37 am

Why don't the media make it clear the the Rwandan scheme is an exchange scheme, UK accepts refugees from Rwanda.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:02 am

As its April 1st, more than happy to agree that the most important thing in the country at the moment is those poor people in the channel and that Brexit was the best thing for the Uk economy

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:27 am

It's in poor taste if any sort of humour can be derived from desperate people risking their life's, it's very serious I guess it highlights certain posters mentality regarding the subject.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Big Vinny K » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:31 am

UK don’t take the most migrants either per capita so that will be another lie by our resident fruit loop

‘Yes……but what I meant was that it’s the no 1 destination for migrants per capita with the name Rees-Mogg”

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:38 am

Big Vinny K wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:31 am
UK don’t take the most migrants either per capita so that will be another lie by our resident fruit loop

‘Yes……but what I meant was that it’s the no 1 destination for migrants per capita with the name Rees-Mogg”
We can't be far off for the size of country it's well & truly saturated & overwhelmed with people arriving daily, by all means you can pretend otherwise, why not crack a joke about it you can join your mate & have a good old laugh about people drowning in the seas what a barrel!

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by roperclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:41 am

Saturated and overwhelmed 🤪

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by tiger76 » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:44 am

Gaia wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:16 am
Why aren't these asylum claims being processed? Because the government are manufacturing a crisis in the hope it will win them an election.
Good question could it be because the government decided to cut the very staff that could have been processing such claims.

Cynical of you to suggest the government is deliberately manufacturing a crisis purely to gain votes. mind you with this ;lot nothing would surprise me.

Why the government don't put more effort into sorting the backlog and thus ensuring successful claimants can then contribute to the UK economy beats me.

And we need migrants to fill the present labour shortages we're experiencing in many industries.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by martin_p » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:45 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:14 pm
Here comes the circle runner 1 day you might learn.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/16628 ... udents-spt
You’ll have to point out where that article says that Britain is the number 1 destination for immigrants, like you claimed (and still isn’t true).

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Big Vinny K » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:45 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:38 am
We can't be far off for the size of country it's well & truly saturated & overwhelmed with people arriving daily, by all means you can pretend otherwise, why not crack a joke about it you can join your mate & have a good old laugh about people drowning in the seas what a barrel!
You seriously need help (and not just with your grammar)
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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by martin_p » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:47 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:58 am
In terms of size vs population density I'd respectfully disagree.
You’ll no doubt have the stats to prove that? No? Made it up? Again?

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:51 am

martin_p wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:47 am
You’ll no doubt have the stats to prove that? No? Made it up? Again?
The "number 1" can be open to interpretation & encompasses a variety of different reasons why the UK holds such an appeal but by all means you can interpret that in the sense that dovetails in with your agenda.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Big Vinny K » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:54 am

Hilarious
Number 1 can now be interpreted as any number depending on your agenda.
Looks like we might be facing relegation

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:59 am

Nothing like can being extreme is there!

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by evensteadiereddie » Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:06 am

Oh dear.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by jrgbfc » Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:15 am

Just been reading that the Independent have launched a campaign to save an Afghan pilot, who served alongside our own armed forces and then had to flee the Taliban but now faces being deported to Rwanda.
It's disgraceful that we can use people like this and then turn our backs on them in the hope of scoring some cheap, political points.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by martin_p » Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:21 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:51 am
The "number 1" can be open to interpretation & encompasses a variety of different reasons why the UK holds such an appeal but by all means you can interpret that in the sense that dovetails in with your agenda.
When you’re having to claim there are hitherto unknown definitions of ‘number1’ it may be time to quit. I’ll just interpret it the one and only way people have interpreted it since counting was invented.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by tiger76 » Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:23 am

jrgbfc wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:15 am
Just been reading that the Independent have launched a campaign to save an Afghan pilot, who served alongside our own armed forces and then had to flee the Taliban but now faces being deported to Rwanda.
It's disgraceful that we can use people like this and then turn our backs on them in the hope of scoring some cheap, political points.
That's scandalous and I for one hope this campaign helps him win the right to remain in the UK.

Crazy that he's deemed fit to serve the UK in conflict but isn't considered deserving of then being allowed to stay in the UK.

Shows that behind all the stats there is real people.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:25 am

martin_p wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:21 am
When you’re having to claim there are hitherto unknown definitions of ‘number1’ it may be time to quit. I’ll just interpret it the one and only way people have interpreted it since counting was invented.
I've got a number 1 curryhouse I go to it doesn't mean I don't go to any others, a number 1 is a favourite but for whatever reason sometimes the favourite is unavailable or not practical.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Swizzlestick » Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:31 am

🤣

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Big Vinny K » Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:30 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:25 am
I've got a number 1 curryhouse I go to it doesn't mean I don't go to any others, a number 1 is a favourite but for whatever reason sometimes the favourite is unavailable or not practical.
Are you deliberately being stupid or is it just natural.

Opinions are different to facts
You have stated things as facts on this thread to support your bigoted opinion and they are simply not the truth. That’s not a matter of opinion it’s a fact.

You might think that Man City are the no1 team in the EPL. That’s not the same as then stating they are top of the league which is factually not correct.

It really isn’t that difficult to understand.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by GordonvaleClaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:44 am

Burnley1989 wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:23 pm
You’d have to be daft not to do everything in your power to pay the least amount of tax that you had to. It’s your money
The post of this and the last century.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:45 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:30 am
Are you deliberately being stupid or is it just natural.

Opinions are different to facts
You have stated things as facts on this thread to support your bigoted opinion and they are simply not the truth. That’s not a matter of opinion it’s a fact.

You might think that Man City are the no1 team in the EPL. That’s not the same as then stating they are top of the league which is factually not correct.

It really isn’t that difficult to understand.
When you can articulate a reasoned argument without insulting I'm more than willing to have a debate but until then sorry I'm adding you to my foe list.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Gaia » Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:36 pm

When you look at it Tiger76 the government are going to use this refugee issue as they have little else. Lee Anderson deputy leader of the Tory party said a few weeks ago that the general election should be fought on
the trans rights debate and other “culture war” issues,.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Big Vinny K » Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:42 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:45 pm
When you can articulate a reasoned argument without insulting I'm more than willing to have a debate but until then sorry I'm adding you to my foe list.
How will I cope with a racist bigoted idiot not responding to my posts ?
It’s going to be a struggle.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by tiger76 » Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:43 pm

Gaia wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:36 pm
When you look at it Tiger76 the government are going to use this refugee issue as they have little else. Lee Anderson deputy leader of the Tory party said a few weeks ago that the general election should be fought on
the trans rights debate and other “culture war” issues,.
General election will as ever be fought on who can best handle the economy whatever the Tories might believe.

And it's likely that the public feel Labour are due their turn after what will be 14-15 years of Conservative governments of various hues and the decrease in living standards that they've presided over. during that lengthy period in power.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by SocialistClaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:54 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:00 am
Ok then we'll switch it I'm assuming from the content of your posts that you are pro immigration will anything change your mind? I'm equally as curious.
You're just not going to bother answering? That's fine I suppose. But if you ever wonder why no one takes your opinions seriously one of the reasons will be that you've expressed that no new information can possibly change them.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:26 pm

SocialistClaret wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:54 pm
You're just not going to bother answering? That's fine I suppose. But if you ever wonder why no one takes your opinions seriously one of the reasons will be that you've expressed that no new information can possibly change them.
You've come across as I should have no right to participate in this debate on the premise that I'm anti immigration bemused by this, I've flipped the coin & now I'm questioning what right do you have to participate in this debate because you are pro immigration. It doesn't matter if you are pro or anti in my book or even neutral because in my eyes you should still be entitled to your opinion as much as the next person regardless of any factors, but I'll give you some credit despite disagreeing (as we obviously do) your first line of attack hasn't been to insult or belittle & with that I've got scope & I can & will progress further into any debate.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by android » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:35 pm

Gaia wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:36 pm
When you look at it Tiger76 the government are going to use this refugee issue as they have little else. Lee Anderson deputy leader of the Tory party said a few weeks ago that the general election should be fought on
the trans rights debate and other “culture war” issues,.
I assume this is a reference to the women's rights debate - you know, like half the population. It is strongly linked to child safeguarding and same-sex attraction rights, so add another X% of the population. We cannot just cave in to the culture warriors. Scotland showed what can be done when people stand up, with their warrior chief having to fall on her sword.

A year or two ago when the polls were close, I confidently predicted that Starmer would stop lying about this issue sometime before the election. With the wide poll gap and his continuing disgusting treatment of the courageous Rosie Duffield, it seems he will just keep on. Tragic if you care about women's rights, which frankly not enough do - and not just on a football forum (ambitious on my part to try to gain support on here I admit!) - so a Labour victory seems certain.
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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by SocialistClaret » Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:41 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:26 pm
You've come across as I should have no right to participate in this debate on the premise that I'm anti immigration bemused by this, I've flipped the coin & now I'm questioning what right do you have to participate in this debate because you are pro immigration. It doesn't matter if you are pro or anti in my book or even neutral because in my eyes you should still be entitled to your opinion as much as the next person regardless of any factors, but I'll give you some credit despite disagreeing (as we obviously do) your first line of attack hasn't been to insult or belittle & with that I've got scope & I can & will progress further into any debate.
I'm happy to spell it out once more. I'm not saying you don't have the right, i'm just wondering why you're even bothering participating in the debate if you already know that nothing can possibly change your mind, as you've already expressed.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Nori1958 » Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:48 am

SocialistClaret wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:41 am
I'm happy to spell it out once more. I'm not saying you don't have the right, i'm just wondering why you're even bothering participating in the debate if you already know that nothing can possibly change your mind, as you've already expressed.
Is that not the same for anyone who has strong opinions on any subject. Nothing could ever make me vote for a certain political party, but surely I can debate politics?

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:10 am

SocialistClaret wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:41 am
I'm happy to spell it out once more. I'm not saying you don't have the right, i'm just wondering why you're even bothering participating in the debate if you already know that nothing can possibly change your mind, as you've already expressed.
Will anybody else? It's not some condition attached to participating in the debate that you must be open to changing your mind is it?

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Gaia » Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:46 pm

The trans issue is an important one but it's not a main issue in a general election for me.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by android » Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:21 am

Gaia wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:46 pm
The trans issue is an important one but it's not a main issue in a general election for me.
I reckon those who regard it as a trans issue would agree.

But I know there is a serious women's rights issue, a child well being and safeguarding issue (especially gay, autistic and vulnerable kids but by no means limited to them) and a homosexual rights issue. And it's just the sheer intolerance of the movement (mostly not trans people to be clear). The idea that left leaning women such as JK Rowling and Rosie Duffield, who have both suffered male violence, are sinister evil bigots is utterly deranged. Of course, most of their accusers must know this, but they have "no debate" on the actual issues and insults is all they have.

For these reasons and more, I would not vote for anyone at the next election who does not very clearly get it.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:27 am

android wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:35 pm
I assume this is a reference to the women's rights debate - you know, like half the population. It is strongly linked to child safeguarding and same-sex attraction rights, so add another X% of the population. We cannot just cave in to the culture warriors. Scotland showed what can be done when people stand up, with their warrior chief having to fall on her sword.

A year or two ago when the polls were close, I confidently predicted that Starmer would stop lying about this issue sometime before the election. With the wide poll gap and his continuing disgusting treatment of the courageous Rosie Duffield, it seems he will just keep on. Tragic if you care about women's rights, which frankly not enough do - and not just on a football forum (ambitious on my part to try to gain support on here I admit!) - so a Labour victory seems certain.
All I will say to this is that you get one shot at life, and if you think or feel that you are in the wrong body or sex, and you can change it, and you are old enough to make that decision, then its f**k all to do with me

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by android » Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:52 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:27 am
All I will say to this is that you get one shot at life, and if you think or feel that you are in the wrong body or sex, and you can change it, and you are old enough to make that decision, then its f**k all to do with me
I doubt many would disagree with that sentiment. You have probably inadvertently hit on a couple of the issues in that one sentence. Very few people bar perhaps a few actual bigots care how someone wishes to dress or "identify" - I agree nowt to do with me and I could not care less. But firstly, humans cannot change sex as you suggest - they can change certain sexual characteristics and good luck to those that choose to do that - but humans cannot change sex and sometimes that matters. Sport, prisons, hospitals are a few obvious examples. If we cannot acknowledge that fact then we cannot have a sensible debate and cannot make sensible policy. Second, you say if you are old enough. Yes, indeed. But if you look at what children are being taught as fact and what happened at the Tavistock you will see some of the major problems with this ideology.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:03 am

android wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:52 am
I doubt many would disagree with that sentiment. You have probably inadvertently hit on a couple of the issues in that one sentence. Very few people bar perhaps a few actual bigots care how someone wishes to dress or "identify" - I agree nowt to do with me and I could not care less. But firstly, humans cannot change sex as you suggest - they can change certain sexual characteristics and good luck to those that choose to do that - but humans cannot change sex and sometimes that matters. Sport, prisons, hospitals are a few obvious examples. If we cannot acknowledge that fact then we cannot have a sensible debate and cannot make sensible policy. Second, you say if you are old enough. Yes, indeed. But if you look at what children are being taught as fact and what happened at the Tavistock you will see some of the major problems with this ideology.
"What children are being taught as fact"

Not at my kids school Android

End of the day, the amount of people who will look at the state of the country and then look at this and go "Crikey, yeah, thats the real problem" are not enough for the current governing party to rely on to win an election

I'd argue to the cows come home that if you've got a government concentrating on this, and not on actually getting the country to work (see Dover this weekend) for as many people as possible, then the government is not doing its job properly and will be punished in an election

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by android » Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:09 am

That's good about your kids school LC and I know well enough what your political views are.

Do you at least get the point about sex?

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Big Vinny K » Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:12 am

Gaia wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:46 pm
The trans issue is an important one but it's not a main issue in a general election for me.
The next 18 months or so before the next general election will be a series of ideas from the Tory parties as to what they believe will resonate most with people in England to make them vote for their party again.

Unfortunately that will not mean the main issues of the day like the cost of living crisis, Ukraine, bring back the publics trust in the government and MPs (after the last few years of lies and corruption)

It will be a strategy of resonating with the bigots and intolerant of this country. At the moment this is very clearly about immigration which went into new territory yesterday highlighting grooming gangs. That will be the same grooming gangs that were exposed 10 years ago whilst this lot have been in charge for 13 years. The Tories will continue in this strategy if they start seeing the polls turning.

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Re: Gary Lineker

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:16 am

android wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:09 am
That's good about your kids school LC and I know well enough what your political views are.

Do you at least get the point about sex?
It doesn't interest me at all I'm afraid

Would you vote for a clearly incompetent government because they agree with you on this?

That would be more interesting (and worrying)

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