Agent fees - Championship

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RVclaret
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Agent fees - Championship

Post by RVclaret » Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:15 pm

The FA have released intermediary fees for the Championship dating 1st February 2022-31st January 2023.

No surprise we are quite high given the amount of players brought in, but remarkably still lower than Norwich (?) and Watford.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:38 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:15 pm
The FA have released intermediary fees for the Championship dating 1st February 2022-31st January 2023.

No surprise we are quite high given the amount of players brought in, but remarkably still lower than Norwich (?) and Watford.
There are 40 transactions recorded - a club record I suspect
https://www.thefa.com/news/2023/mar/31/ ... ons-310323
Intediary transactions Feb 2022 Jan 2023 Burnley part A.JPG
Intediary transactions Feb 2022 Jan 2023 Burnley part A.JPG (75.25 KiB) Viewed 2973 times
Intediary transactions Feb 2022 Jan 2023 Burnley part B.JPG
Intediary transactions Feb 2022 Jan 2023 Burnley part B.JPG (245.41 KiB) Viewed 2972 times
Intediary transactions Feb 2022 Jan 2023 Burnley part c.JPG
Intediary transactions Feb 2022 Jan 2023 Burnley part c.JPG (143.6 KiB) Viewed 2972 times

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by roperclaret » Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:43 pm

It’s unfortunately a necessary evil these days. I think our reluctance to pander to agents under the previous regime probably was one of the major factors in why we found it so difficult to sign players.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:49 pm

Gabriel Otegbayo!! I had to look him up. Not on any squad list though.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Commy » Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:50 pm

I'm glad Obafemi doesn't use his middle name!

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by mdd2 » Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:56 pm

Didnt Jack Cork re-sign last summer?

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by wilks_bfc » Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:04 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:56 pm
Didnt Jack Cork re-sign last summer?
He’s on the list

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:07 pm

roperclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:43 pm
It’s unfortunately a necessary evil these days. I think our reluctance to pander to agents under the previous regime probably was one of the major factors in why we found it so difficult to sign players.
No director, to my recollection, has been more outspoken on the practice of agents than Alan Pace. The same director/chairman who has made club record spends on agents in the Premier League and now the Championship
Intermediary transactions Feb 2021 - Jan 2022.JPG
Intermediary transactions Feb 2021 - Jan 2022.JPG (118.06 KiB) Viewed 2736 times
It is probable that such spends are going to increase as a result of the buy to sell strategy he is employing - irrespective of new FIFA regulation regarding the payment of intermediaries

These costs will be amortised over the period of the players contracts in the same straight line terms as the transfer fees and other costs of acquisition such as the legal and medical assessment costs. This is important to note because the Premier League stated to the DCMS in parliament this week that they intend to move their Profit and Sustainability regulations (FFP) in line to those of UEFA next season. Those will see total player costs (wages + Amortisation) eventually need to drop to 70% of revenues by 2025/26 amongst other things like outstanding transfer debt being added to a overall debt reading that is likely to be held to specific thresholds.

As I said elsewhere yesterday the regulatory picture is evolving and it will change the practice and nature of how clubs and the market operates

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by mdd2 » Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:27 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:04 pm
He’s on the list
There is none so blind as they that cannot see (despite looking three times) think it was his other names that dazzled me. Wonder if Porteous is mum's maiden name

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Milltown1882 » Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:31 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:07 pm
No director, to my recollection, has been more outspoken on the practice of agents than Alan Pace. The same director/chairman who has made club record spends on agents in the Premier League and now the Championship

Intermediary transactions Feb 2021 - Jan 2022.JPG

It is probable that such spends are going to increase as a result of the buy to sell strategy he is employing - irrespective of new FIFA regulation regarding the payment of intermediaries

These costs will be amortised over the period of the players contracts in the same straight line terms as the transfer fees and other costs of acquisition such as the legal and medical assessment costs. This is important to note because the Premier League stated to the DCMS in parliament this week that they intend to move their Profit and Sustainability regulations (FFP) in line to those of UEFA next season. Those will see total player costs (wages + Amortisation) eventually need to drop to 70% of revenues by 2025/26 amongst other things like outstanding transfer debt being added to a overall debt reading that is likely to be held to specific thresholds.

As I said elsewhere yesterday the regulatory picture is evolving and it will change the practice and nature of how clubs and the market operates
How many teams sold most of their squad in the summer? We were obviously going to have large agent spend.
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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:03 pm

Milltown1882 wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:31 pm
How many teams sold most of their squad in the summer? We were obviously going to have large agent spend.
And we've had value for our money (for a change).

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:09 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:03 pm
And we've had value for our money (for a change).
this season, but I would suggest that is mostly down to the contributions managers own business interests and not the club directly (though they do appear to have employed MUD Analytics Limited to help out)

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Nonayforever » Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:04 pm

I've long said that agents are an extremely important part of any teams recruitment.
They should be wined, dined and nurtured.
If our team ( or any other for that matter) wants the pick of players when they become available the deciding factor may well be the influence of the players agents.
If it costs money then so be it. The difference between success and failure could hinge on getting a certain target over the line

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by bfcmik » Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:28 pm

It should be noted that the 3 highest amounts are for the 3 relegated clubs. Probably a lot to do with altering contracts after relegation with the fee dependent on player salaries.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:05 pm

bfcmik wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:28 pm
,,. Probably a lot to do with altering contracts after relegation with the fee dependent on player salaries.
There are two major holes in that thesis

- relegations clauses are put into contracts when they are signed (either on arrival or on extension) not when relegation occurs
- the transactions listed are not related to players who would be affected by that and do not list what you suggest as the reason for the transaction

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by distortiondave » Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:15 pm

There was a club with a 'Zero Agents Fees' policy and I thought it was Blackpool. Was it, once of a day?

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by bfcmik » Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:53 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:05 pm
There are two major holes in that thesis

- relegations clauses are put into contracts when they are signed (either on arrival or on extension) not when relegation occurs
- the transactions listed are not related to players who would be affected by that and do not list what you suggest as the reason for the transaction
So what would you suggest is the reason the 3 relegated clubs all had roughly similar amounts of agents fees during the year that included their relegation. I will give you the Sean Dyche et al sackings, which probably generated a whopping amount of fees by themselves.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Hipper » Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:02 pm

distortiondave wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:15 pm
There was a club with a 'Zero Agents Fees' policy and I thought it was Blackpool. Was it, once of a day?
I thought it was Crewe.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Hipper » Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:05 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:09 pm
this season, but I would suggest that is mostly down to the contributions managers own business interests and not the club directly (though they do appear to have employed MUD Analytics Limited to help out)
Could you explain 'contributions managers own business interests' a bit please Chester? What is a 'contributions manger', if that's what you meant?

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:51 pm

bfcmik wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:53 pm
So what would you suggest is the reason the 3 relegated clubs all had roughly similar amounts of agents fees during the year that included their relegation. I will give you the Sean Dyche et al sackings, which probably generated a whopping amount of fees by themselves.
surely it's just the sheer volume of sales and signings, nothing to see here.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by tiger76 » Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:56 pm

Not an aspect of the game I like, however if we sign players then we need to pay their agents that's just part and parcel of the modern game like it or not.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:53 pm

Hipper wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:05 pm
Could you explain 'contributions managers own business interests' a bit please Chester? What is a 'contributions manger', if that's what you meant?
typo, should read

'contribution of the managers own business'

well at least one of them, there may be another as well, but I haven't established if that is the case as yet

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by RVclaret » Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:54 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:53 pm
typo, should read

'contribution of the managers own business'

well at least one of them, there may be another as well, but I haven't established if that is the case as yet
The managers own business? What is this?

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:01 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:54 pm
The managers own business? What is this?
Exactly what I said it was

In partnership with this guy

https://trainingground.guru/articles/ma ... -six-years

and the chap who appears to be a significant influence on VK's mental approach is also involved (as he is in a number of VK's other ventures)

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Nori1958 » Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:25 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:01 pm
Exactly what I said it was

In partnership with this guy

https://trainingground.guru/articles/ma ... -six-years

and the chap who appears to be a significant influence on VK's mental approach is also involved (as he is in a number of VK's other ventures)
Have you named the company ?

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:36 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:25 pm
Have you named the company ?
yep

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Nori1958 » Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:47 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:36 pm
yep
I must be blind...what is it

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:49 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:47 pm
I must be blind...what is it
it is on this thread - not that difficult

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Nori1958 » Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:55 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:49 pm
it is on this thread - not that difficult
Really?...others are also struggling to see it, instead of trying to be clever, why not just name it

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:03 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:55 pm
Really?...others are also struggling to see it, instead of trying to be clever, why not just name it
There is only one company named on the whole thread
Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:09 pm
this season, but I would suggest that is mostly down to the contributions managers own business interests and not the club directly (though they do appear to have employed MUD Analytics Limited to help out)

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Nori1958 » Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:07 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:03 pm
There is only one company named on the whole thread
Maybe, but not clear that kompany is involved the way that you've written it...but at least now I think I know what you're talking about..have a good evening

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:23 pm

bfcmik wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:53 pm
So what would you suggest is the reason the 3 relegated clubs all had roughly similar amounts of agents fees during the year that included their relegation. I will give you the Sean Dyche et al sackings, which probably generated a whopping amount of fees by themselves.
just read the list I have displayed and look at the link I provided for the other clubs you mentioned - the information is there just look at it it explains the purpose of each transaction - and also note the list is only in regards to players not coaches, backroom staff or managers

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Dingo » Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:14 pm

Relatedly, I read this report published a few days ago on agent fees and the dual representation scheme that seemingly creates artificial payment structures to avoid tax: https://www.taxpolicy.org.uk/2023/03/30/football/
Of interest to us is that in 2021, 100% of our transfers allegedly used dual representation structures to pay agents, avoiding 2.4m in tax. If you look at the raw data at the end you get some more insight into the transfer for 2020 and 2021. It wouldn’t be surprising if we were one of the clubs HMRC is currently investigating.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by aggi » Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:25 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:07 pm
Maybe, but not clear that kompany is involved the way that you've written it...but at least now I think I know what you're talking about..have a good evening
Kompany is the main shareholder for Mud Analytics. He's got quite a few companies knocking around.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by aggi » Sun Apr 02, 2023 9:27 pm

Dingo wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:14 pm
Relatedly, I read this report published a few days ago on agent fees and the dual representation scheme that seemingly creates artificial payment structures to avoid tax: https://www.taxpolicy.org.uk/2023/03/30/football/
Of interest to us is that in 2021, 100% of our transfers allegedly used dual representation structures to pay agents, avoiding 2.4m in tax. If you look at the raw data at the end you get some more insight into the transfer for 2020 and 2021. It wouldn’t be surprising if we were one of the clubs HMRC is currently investigating.
It's an interesting article but kind of gives the impression that this is all a new thing whereas it's been a big topic for a number of years and clubs have been very careful around it for a while (not to say that some won't end up being hit with cases on it).

Also doesn't seem to mention that clubs may pay agents' fees and then declare them on a player's P11d as a benefit which negates the tax impact.
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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:13 pm

aggi wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:25 pm
Kompany is the main shareholder for Mud Analytics. He's got quite a few companies knocking around.
What is really interesting is that there is another company that VK founded a number of years ago that may also be involved at the club (I am still searching for evidence of that) but it is more difficult for people to discover his involvement in it - he has never been a director of this business but was once declared as the person with significant control - now he is the 3rd largest shareholder

Interestingly this company (as of this weekend) is late in filing it's annual accounts according to Companies House

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:26 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:13 pm
What is really interesting is that there is another company that VK founded a number of years ago that may also be involved at the club (I am still searching for evidence of that) but it is more difficult for people to discover his involvement in it - he has never been a director of this business but was once declared as the person with significant control - now he is the 3rd largest shareholder

Interestingly this company (as of this weekend) is late in filing it's annual accounts according to Companies House
Correction - it appears that VK disposed of his shareholding in the past few weeks - he is no longer involved

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:42 am

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:49 pm
Gabriel Otegbayo!! I had to look him up. Not on any squad list though.
First year scholar and he is on the squad list

https://www.uptheclarets.com/players/squad-list

He played in the u18 game this weekend but the only other time I’ve seen him play was back in September when he was stretchered off.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:00 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:07 pm
No director, to my recollection, has been more outspoken on the practice of agents than Alan Pace. The same director/chairman who has made club record spends on agents in the Premier League and now the Championship

Intermediary transactions Feb 2021 - Jan 2022.JPG

It is probable that such spends are going to increase as a result of the buy to sell strategy he is employing - irrespective of new FIFA regulation regarding the payment of intermediaries

These costs will be amortised over the period of the players contracts in the same straight line terms as the transfer fees and other costs of acquisition such as the legal and medical assessment costs. This is important to note because the Premier League stated to the DCMS in parliament this week that they intend to move their Profit and Sustainability regulations (FFP) in line to those of UEFA next season. Those will see total player costs (wages + Amortisation) eventually need to drop to 70% of revenues by 2025/26 amongst other things like outstanding transfer debt being added to a overall debt reading that is likely to be held to specific thresholds.

As I said elsewhere yesterday the regulatory picture is evolving and it will change the practice and nature of how clubs and the market operates
Do you think he shouldn't use agents due to being outspoken against them ? Or was it another lame way of having a little dig at the owners simply for not liking them.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:46 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:42 am
First year scholar and he is on the squad list

https://www.uptheclarets.com/players/squad-list

He played in the u18 game this weekend but the only other time I’ve seen him play was back in September when he was stretchered off.
Sorry, I should have said he's not listed on the club site.
Uptheclarets again proving to be more efficient.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Dingo » Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:53 am

aggi wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 9:27 pm
It's an interesting article but kind of gives the impression that this is all a new thing whereas it's been a big topic for a number of years and clubs have been very careful around it for a while (not to say that some won't end up being hit with cases on it).

Also doesn't seem to mention that clubs may pay agents' fees and then declare them on a player's P11d as a benefit which negates the tax impact.
HMRC guidance on dual representation was updated in 2021 so with the lag in the tax system and the time needed to undertake enquiries, maybe we can expect some cases to come to light in the near future.

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by CnBtruntru » Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:56 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:03 pm
There is only one company named on the whole thread
Where? :roll: :lol: 😂

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by aggi » Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:56 am

Dingo wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:53 am
HMRC guidance on dual representation was updated in 2021 so with the lag in the tax system and the time needed to undertake enquiries, maybe we can expect some cases to come to light in the near future.
Probably, although it has been an issue for a long time so the pickings are probably getting slimmer.

This was back in 2007 https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... stoplaybot

There was a big case with Newcastle a good few years back (dawn raids to seize documents and the like) which related to the same dual representation issue and I've got a feeling that West Ham, Watford and Chelsea have all been investigated too (plus probably a fair few others).

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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:44 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:00 am
Do you think he shouldn't use agents due to being outspoken against them ? Or was it another lame way of having a little dig at the owners simply for not liking them.
Actually I was thinking the use of agents was inevitable - that is the nature of the industry.

But was wondering why a man who has centralised much of the growth and development strategy for the club he now controls (and this was from day one when you go back to his interviews) would then openly and very publicly denigrate those whose interests (Agents interests are those of their clients - the players) are very much the key to the financial growth and league position (bearing in mind TV is still and likely will be for some time, the primary source of revenue at the club).

There is a long running issue about the way owners in US sports treat their players and it is something that has crept into European football:
- JJ Watt recently spoke on the Pat McAfee show about the ludicrous situation where players with serious career threatening injuries are not talked about - all that is mentioned is how long they could be unavailable for selection he went on to remark and how quickly the general public has become normalised to that
- How many are aware of the scandal around players drafted early on huge deals but never see them paid/activated until they play for the main team, there are players who are never used and consequently paid peanuts even when being forced to play with affiliates in the minor leagues - this is either because of a budget cap or simply as a strategy to prevent the player going elsewhere
- the same goes with player sales - the accountancy speak of 'disposal of (intangible) assets' is beginning to take over. then are the protestations, first from club's (often the manager first), usually quickly taken up by fans if a player refuses to move when he doesn't want to for family and/or financial reasons
- In US sport you also have a situation where players are effectively blackballed for speaking out.

It does seem that Pace has learned from that and has ceased to speak about it. It was just an illogical thing to say as many commentated at the time.

As for 'lame attempt....'
well I have seen far lamer for those wanting to defend the owners every action just because of the gloriously thrilling spectacle of the teams performance this season, which is frankly ridiculous and hugely irresponsible.

When Pace gave his first press conference he said this when asked directly about communication with fans/supporters

“I hope that they will see that we are fairly open, I like to think very open, and we like to communicate"


that of course has proven to be distinctly untrue, we now exist in era of the club where reporting of its business side and information shared with shareholders in particular, has never in the 125 year history of the Burnley Football and Athletic Club Limited been so restricted. The complexity and opacity of the entities that comprise the ownership structure are just and additional distraction to this core issue.

My last article for the London Clarets finished in this way

"Football clubs are not private playthings; they should not be thought of as piggy banks, nest eggs
or annuity funds. They are the fabric that binds together communities with all their hopes, joys,
dreams, fears, memories and pain woven into them. We should remain mindful of this, be vigilant
and seek to better understand how our club is run."


you can read all of it here if you choose https://twitter.com/LondonClarets/statu ... 0268922886

essentially what I am getting here is that anyone who believes that the club is a central institution of our community as supporters and/or the town has a responsibility to be a critical observer of it. This is a millennia held belief of free (western) societies. Hence, my quotation of Juvenal's "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" on another thread yesterday. There are many who would be better supporter's of the club by understanding the value of that thought, because they act like customers and they are not when it comes down to the essential truth of it.

That is a point proven repeatedly up and down the country in recent years and one we are still seeing at clubs ranging from Everton, through fellow Lancastrians Morecambe to Birmingham City and West Bromwich Albion. There are plenty of others too, which is why we are heading to the imposition of an Independent Regulator of Football, not because football is a huge financial industry (it isn't in the scheme off things) but because of the fact that football clubs central importance to the communities in which they reside. A point recognised and made clear very early on in the recent White Paper - actually in the executive summary

“The free market does not properly account for the importance of clubs to their fans and communities, and industry self-regulation has remained inadequate – seeing clubs collapse and fans harmed. Therefore, football needs a strong centre to independently apply reformed rules.”

I have not, would not suggest that we should not enjoy the football - this season should be treasured and cherished, it will rightfully live always as a bright star in the annals of our history and may yet be the precursor to even greater achievements - but that should never allow us to forget our responsibilities to watch over the rest of the activities at the club

ŽižkovClaret
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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:20 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:49 pm
Gabriel Otegbayo!! I had to look him up. Not on any squad list though.
AFAIK this list includes some staff, not just players....

Stalbansclaret
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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Stalbansclaret » Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:00 pm

At least I know what the CJ in "CJ Egan-Riley" stands for now. Hello Conrad Jaden.

claretonthecoast1882
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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:16 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:44 pm
Actually I was thinking the use of agents was inevitable - that is the nature of the industry.

But was wondering why a man who has centralised much of the growth and development strategy for the club he now controls (and this was from day one when you go back to his interviews) would then openly and very publicly denigrate those whose interests (Agents interests are those of their clients - the players) are very much the key to the financial growth and league position (bearing in mind TV is still and likely will be for some time, the primary source of revenue at the club).

There is a long running issue about the way owners in US sports treat their players and it is something that has crept into European football:
- JJ Watt recently spoke on the Pat McAfee show about the ludicrous situation where players with serious career threatening injuries are not talked about - all that is mentioned is how long they could be unavailable for selection he went on to remark and how quickly the general public has become normalised to that
- How many are aware of the scandal around players drafted early on huge deals but never see them paid/activated until they play for the main team, there are players who are never used and consequently paid peanuts even when being forced to play with affiliates in the minor leagues - this is either because of a budget cap or simply as a strategy to prevent the player going elsewhere
- the same goes with player sales - the accountancy speak of 'disposal of (intangible) assets' is beginning to take over. then are the protestations, first from club's (often the manager first), usually quickly taken up by fans if a player refuses to move when he doesn't want to for family and/or financial reasons
- In US sport you also have a situation where players are effectively blackballed for speaking out.

It does seem that Pace has learned from that and has ceased to speak about it. It was just an illogical thing to say as many commentated at the time.

As for 'lame attempt....'
well I have seen far lamer for those wanting to defend the owners every action just because of the gloriously thrilling spectacle of the teams performance this season, which is frankly ridiculous and hugely irresponsible.

When Pace gave his first press conference he said this when asked directly about communication with fans/supporters

“I hope that they will see that we are fairly open, I like to think very open, and we like to communicate"


that of course has proven to be distinctly untrue, we now exist in era of the club where reporting of its business side and information shared with shareholders in particular, has never in the 125 year history of the Burnley Football and Athletic Club Limited been so restricted. The complexity and opacity of the entities that comprise the ownership structure are just and additional distraction to this core issue.

My last article for the London Clarets finished in this way

"Football clubs are not private playthings; they should not be thought of as piggy banks, nest eggs
or annuity funds. They are the fabric that binds together communities with all their hopes, joys,
dreams, fears, memories and pain woven into them. We should remain mindful of this, be vigilant
and seek to better understand how our club is run."


you can read all of it here if you choose https://twitter.com/LondonClarets/statu ... 0268922886

essentially what I am getting here is that anyone who believes that the club is a central institution of our community as supporters and/or the town has a responsibility to be a critical observer of it. This is a millennia held belief of free (western) societies. Hence, my quotation of Juvenal's "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" on another thread yesterday. There are many who would be better supporter's of the club by understanding the value of that thought, because they act like customers and they are not when it comes down to the essential truth of it.

That is a point proven repeatedly up and down the country in recent years and one we are still seeing at clubs ranging from Everton, through fellow Lancastrians Morecambe to Birmingham City and West Bromwich Albion. There are plenty of others too, which is why we are heading to the imposition of an Independent Regulator of Football, not because football is a huge financial industry (it isn't in the scheme off things) but because of the fact that football clubs central importance to the communities in which they reside. A point recognised and made clear very early on in the recent White Paper - actually in the executive summary

“The free market does not properly account for the importance of clubs to their fans and communities, and industry self-regulation has remained inadequate – seeing clubs collapse and fans harmed. Therefore, football needs a strong centre to independently apply reformed rules.”

I have not, would not suggest that we should not enjoy the football - this season should be treasured and cherished, it will rightfully live always as a bright star in the annals of our history and may yet be the precursor to even greater achievements - but that should never allow us to forget our responsibilities to watch over the rest of the activities at the club

An awful lot of words just to dress up your dislike of the owners, I really do hope you get what you wish for when the accounts come out for your own sake. Once you start going down rabbit hole and have made your mind up with little knowledge it is very hard to change your approach.

Chester Perry
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Re: Agent fees - Championship

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:26 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:16 am
An awful lot of words just to dress up your dislike of the owners, I really do hope you get what you wish for when the accounts come out for your own sake. Once you start going down rabbit hole and have made your mind up with little knowledge it is very hard to change your approach.
and what do you think that is? given I have stated it a few times recently

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