A class player some years ago
I think some young footballers appear to peak too early.
My thoughts on media darling players are well known so I won't add to them.But from a national team point of view the fall from grace of former young England International players is worrying

Pearcey wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:20 pm

Jesse Lingard released by Forest and available on a free.

Just need someone like him to come and stink the place out next season.

boyyanno wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:16 pm

God no, this kind of signing would be awful.

I think this would be a great signing, if we could get him within the pay structure ect, so as not to upset the team. He was on fire at West Ham & upon his return to Utd. He made a wrong decision and chased the money, signing for a team that didn’t play to his strengths, thus he got lost last season. There’s definitely a premiership player who can score goals at this level.

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:27 am

Connor Coady (30) available for around £4m
Reasonably cheap for someone with plenty of PL experience and would make our CB's up to four without having to loan THB again

Very good on the ball but milk turns quicker, suited to a back three where he has protection or teams who sit deep.

Pearcey wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:20 pm

Jesse Lingard released by Forest and available on a free.

Done himself no favours during the past two seasons. Be very lucky to get another chance in the PL

There’s a few players in the same mould as Lingard who will be free agents in July:

Mainland-miles
Oxlade-chamberlain
Moura
Traore
Tielemans

Could all be players we might look at

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:36 pm

There’s a few players in the same mould as Lingard who will be free agents in July:

Mainland-miles
Oxlade-chamberlain
Moura
Traore
Tielemans

Could all be players we might look at

We might well look at them and that will be all.

Think the best way to sum up Lingard is went to West Ham had a brilliant spell and done really well got in the England squad for first time in a while, was close to going to a major tournament with his country, then picked Forest over West Ham as they paid slightly more

Pearcey wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:20 pm

Jesse Lingard released by Forest and available on a free.

Nah, he's shown he wants money over anything else and he's spent the last season dossing at Forest.

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:36 pm

There’s a few players in the same mould as Lingard who will be free agents in July:

Mainland-miles
Oxlade-chamberlain
Moura
Traore
Tielemans

Could all be players we might look at

We tried getting AMN before, then he fell for the guff from Arteta about more playing time, before then going out on loan.

No thanks

Ox - no, injury prone and doesn't fit our recruitment policy
Tielemans - didn't he pretty much down tools this last season.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:00 pm

We tried getting AMN before, then he fell for the guff from Arteta about more playing time, before then going out on loan.

No thanks

Ox - no, injury prone and doesn't fit our recruitment policy
Tielemans - didn't he pretty much down tools this last season.

Tielemens will end up at United or Arsenal

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:04 pm

Tielemens will end up at United or Arsenal

Probably Utd, fits the profile of players they're trying to sign.

clive40golf wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:49 pm

I think this would be a great signing, if we could get him within the pay structure ect, so as not to upset the team. He was on fire at West Ham & upon his return to Utd. He made a wrong decision and chased the money, signing for a team that didn’t play to his strengths, thus he got lost last season. There’s definitely a premiership player who can score goals at this level.

He looks like a player who's career is only going one way imo (and it's the direction I hope we don't go in).

Stanislas leaves Bournemouth
Been there nine years !!
Unbelievable Jeff

I think Tielemans will struggle to land a good club in the PL. He was very poor this season by his standards since the World Cup

I hope Drameh goes to Luton. I've not noticed the lad really this year, but if you have chemistry with a side on loan, sign for them.

If rarely works out choosing another club.

VK clearly likes Drameh if the rumours are true. We were linked to him earlier this season and now it’s resurfaced. Unless of course we are now the name being used to drive up a potential price from Luton?

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:19 am

I hope Drameh goes to Luton. I've not noticed the lad really this year, but if you have chemistry with a side on loan, sign for them.

If rarely works out choosing another club.

Ian Maatsen and THB didn’t do too bad.

Pearcey wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:34 am

Ian Maatsen and THB didn’t do too bad.

About x20 before that didn't, and Maatsen is a crap defender but good going forward

Pearcey wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:34 am

Ian Maatsen and THB didn’t do too bad.

I'm not sure THB impressed many other sets of fans before us.

But I was more thinking permanent signings. Like the guy who was on loan at Forest from Boro. Everyone loved him.
Chose to go to Spurs instead and didn't play a game.

AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:40 am

About x20 before that didn't, and Maatsen is a crap defender but good going forward

My concern in the PL.

His defending improved through the season , but not his strongest point .

AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:40 am

About x20 before that didn't, and Maatsen is a crap defender but good going forward

This isn't true about Maatsen. It is true that he can be shaky as a 1 v 1 defender, although he improved dramatically in that department as the season went on.

But he reads the game well, steps out to press/jockey or intercept really intelligently, and his defending of the back post is another area where he improved dramatically over the course of last season, to a point where he was very reliable in that department.

Mastsen's biggest weakness isn't anything technical in his defending, its his tendency to have a dodgy 10 minutes after a mistake when he wants to rectify everything instantly and makes rash decisions as a result. Cut that out and he'll be outstanding.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:04 am

This isn't true about Maatsen. It is true that he can be shaky as a 1 v 1 defender, although he improved dramatically in that department as the season went on.

But he reads the game well, steps out to press/jockey or intercept really intelligently, and his defending of the back post is another area where he improved dramatically over the course of last season, to a point where he was very reliable in that department.

Mastsen's biggest weakness isn't anything technical in his defending, its his tendency to have a dodgy 10 minutes after a mistake when he wants to rectify everything instantly and makes rash decisions as a result. Cut that out and he'll be outstanding.

Agree, it’s a different style of defending that perhaps we’ve been used to, he’s definitely a front foot defender rather than back foot. Like you say the snappy interceptions and turn of pace is top and I reckon he’ll adapt to the Prem quite well. Hope we sign him.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:04 am

This isn't true about Maatsen. It is true that he can be shaky as a 1 v 1 defender, although he improved dramatically in that department as the season went on.

But he reads the game well, steps out to press/jockey or intercept really intelligently, and his defending of the back post is another area where he improved dramatically over the course of last season, to a point where he was very reliable in that department.

Mastsen's biggest weakness isn't anything technical in his defending, its his tendency to have a dodgy 10 minutes after a mistake when he wants to rectify everything instantly and makes rash decisions as a result. Cut that out and he'll be outstanding.

I think people can get too caught up with could go wrong next season rather than what could go right. Some posts on here about Maatsen being a good example of that.

Our players will have some flaws, we're not Man City. Doesn't mean they aren't very good players.

Some absolute ******** spoken on here about Maatsen’s defensive qualities.

For his age his level is fantastic. The defensive stuff can be drilled in quite quickly if need be. Less so his attacking ability.

Socrates wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:19 am

Some absolute ******** spoken on here about Maatsen’s defensive qualities.

For his age his level is fantastic. The defensive stuff can be drilled in quite quickly if need be. Less so his attacking ability.

He'd get tore apart week in week out in the premier league, he's not strong enough, the lad at Rotherham up front bullied him and so would 99% of the attack in the Premier league

Pearcey wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:20 pm

Jesse Lingard released by Forest and available on a free.

Exactly the type of signing we won’t be making this summer. He was on a ridiculous wage and the fact he only signed a one year deal tells you everything you need to know about his commitment to keeping Forrest up this year.

Wouldn’t be at all surprised to see him link up with West Ham again. He actually had a good 6 months with them.

He’s not good enough, YET.

AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:23 am

He'd get tore apart week in week out in the premier league, he's not strong enough, the lad at Rotherham up front bullied him and so would 99% of the attack in the Premier league

You’re chatting absolute wham.

1 game. That we won. That’s your example. And you extrapolate that across a whole Premier League season against teams who don’t load up with long diagonals and play long ball (Luton and Everton apart).

Cooclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:34 am

He’s not good enough, YET.

We can't afford to carry a player not good enough YET in the Premier league

Socrates wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:34 am

You’re chatting absolute wham.

1 game. That we won. That’s your example. And you extrapolate that across a whole Premier League season against teams who don’t load up with long diagonals and play long ball (Luton and Everton apart).

One example out of plenty, the game I witnessed was away and we drew, no long ball by Rotherham to the lad upfront all to feet and Maatsen was LOST he couldn't deal with him one on one

The only thing I'm scared about with the loan signings is their price tags. They are all young enough to learn and adapt, which if they played plenty of games they did successfully.

Oh and some posters/fans attitude of just pay 20m each to get them.

AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:54 am

One example out of plenty, the game I witnessed was away and we drew, no long ball by Rotherham to the lad upfront all to feet and Maatsen was LOST he couldn't deal with him one on one

He's 21 - just. Even if we take your point (which his peers agreed with so vehemently they voted him the best left back in the league) it is countered by the fact a player at that age improves very, very rapidly. He did during the season last year and with another full season, he would again. You are right about his area for improvement and there's every reason to believe he'll be much better in that department next season. He's the same age (now) Tripper was when he joined us and the pace of his improvement under Dyche is a reasonable indicator of how fast we can expect a young player of international potential to improve.

Trippier, incidentally, is a good parallel except he never had the sort of explosive pace that Maatsen has. Trippier plus real pace is quite the combination in my view. I wouldn't say we should pay whatever Chelsea want but I think there's a fair chance that even with a price tag rising to 10+m (or a little more) I'm pretty sure we'll get our money back and some besides.

Funny as I thought Maatsen had a great game against Rashford at Old Trafford.
We can see that he has already developed his defensive ability this season and he will continue to develop it further.

He has had a few poor games (like all players do) and I think his biggest problem is getting caught out of position and also his lapse in concentrations when he has inexplicably passed the ball across the field to one of the oppositions players. But he’s young and these are all areas not that difficult to fix.

Undoubtedly if we do sign him there will be games he is exposed - not really a surprise given that he will be up against some of the best forwards in the world. Anybody thinking Conor Roberts won’t be in the same boat is in dreamland. How many full backs in the Premier league are not exposed ?- look at TAA at Liverpool and the Spurs full backs this season who have been awful despite spending £25m plus on them every season !

But with Maatsen and Roberts VK plays them in his system because of other attributes they have. How many games this year when we have worn teams down in the second half has Maatsen been the player still driving forward in the last 25 minutes ?Along with Tella he has to be the fittest and most athletic player in our team.

How many full backs have we had in the past - Tripps apart - who have the ability to score and assist like Maatsen and Roberts do ?

If Maatsen could defend like he can attack he would cost £50m like Chilwell….and is he even that good at defending ? (They have a £60m full back on the bench too !!)

I was a bit concerned about Maatsen's defending, then I watched Mason Holgate and Ben Godfrey playing for Everton, and stopped worrying.

I think the reason people complain about Maatsens defensive capabilities are because they don’t understand the role Maatsen is playing.

He is not an out and out left back. Look at his average position this season, he is almost playing as a deep lying centre mid. (Or as everyone calls peps full backs “inverted full back”). His average position this season and most creative location was the left side of the centre circle.

Kompanys tactics allow him to be more advanced (which defensively mean he is usually not in a great position) with the likes of Brownhill or cullen stepping back to help the CBS.

I am more than comfortable with Maatsen starting in the prem and wouldn’t be surprised if in 12 months he moved on to a much bigger club. For his age he is a fantastic talent (IMHO has a higher ceiling than the likes of THB).

Good post above. Charlie Taylor is still the best traditional.left back we have but those days have gone. Maatsen brings so much to the team. Love to see him sign for us.

You only need to look at Trippier to see how quickly a young defender can improve the defensive element of their game.

We saw plenty of improvement in Maatsen’s defending, as last season progressed, to go alongside the already very good attacking side of his game.

I’d argue that he actually became a little more restrained in his attacking play, which was likely a part of his coaching and learning.

Biggest issue I’ve seen with Maatsen is that he can on occasion be caught out by long diagonal balls. Nothing that can’t be improved upon though.

AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:23 am

He'd get tore apart week in week out in the premier league, he's not strong enough, the lad at Rotherham up front bullied him and so would 99% of the attack in the Premier league

Put your device down Charlie and try to enjoy the summer break.

Anyone know the news Nixon has on Burnley from this morning? Is it us wanting Drameh?

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:21 pm

I think the reason people complain about Maatsens defensive capabilities are because they don’t understand the role Maatsen is playing.

He is not an out and out left back. Look at his average position this season, he is almost playing as a deep lying centre mid. (Or as everyone calls peps full backs “inverted full back”). His average position this season and most creative location was the left side of the centre circle.

Kompanys tactics allow him to be more advanced (which defensively mean he is usually not in a great position) with the likes of Brownhill or cullen stepping back to help the CBS.

I am more than comfortable with Maatsen starting in the prem and wouldn’t be surprised if in 12 months he moved on to a much bigger club. For his age he is a fantastic talent (IMHO has a higher ceiling than the likes of THB).

The major difference being that Peps inverted full backs are also world class defenders, he's even used central defenders there because he's adapted to the need to defend too.
City are also probably the best team in the world who dominate possession in 99% of their games every season, similar to how it's worked so well for us this season in the championship BUT we won't dominate possession every game this season and at times will be under the cosh where we will need to defend properly to survive or we will take some heavy beatings. Playing with a full back who cannot defend could be the difference between survival

Socrates wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:34 am

You’re chatting absolute wham.

1 game. That we won. That’s your example. And you extrapolate that across a whole Premier League season against teams who don’t load up with long diagonals and play long ball (Luton and Everton apart).

I go with the manager and back all Clarets but this lad had as many poor games as good ones. At his best he was excellent but too many matches he was dire.

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:09 pm

I go with the manager and back all Clarets but this lad had as many poor games as good ones. At his best he was excellent but too many matches he was dire.

Don’t know how we got promoted if he was that bad.

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:09 pm

I go with the manager and back all Clarets but this lad had as many poor games as good ones. At his best he was excellent but too many matches he was dire.

If we'd have had a better left back maybe we'd have won the league by ten points... Teams as good as Burnley were last season don't have dire players, it's as simple as that.

Burnley fans: we want young, exciting players with high ceilings who we can develop and sell on for a profit.

Also Burnley fans: we want accomplished pros who are already developed and have no weaknesses.

Pickles wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:22 pm

If we'd have had a better left back maybe we'd have won the league by ten points... Teams as good as Burnley were last season don't have dire players, it's as simple as that.

I think it’d be nearer 20 points and we’d have conceded even less goals!

Pickles wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:22 pm

If we'd have had a better left back maybe we'd have won the league by ten points... Teams as good as Burnley were last season don't have dire players, it's as simple as that.

AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:51 am

We can't afford to carry a player not good enough YET in the Premier league

Can’t imagine we’ll be signing many players who have got loads of Prem experience. I’d imagine we’re not going to know whether the majority of our squad or signings this summer are going to be good enough, that’s kind of the model we have now.