Belgian club KV Kortrijk is owned by Vincent Tan. They have had a torrid season and have just escaped relegation but have now seen the chairman, manager and general manager all walk out because of Tan.

He's owned the club since 2015, having bought it for £5m but is now looking to sell. He has turned down offers from Bournemouth and Burnley according to Wales Online.

Was it Tan who decided that Cardiff were changing colours and playing in red at home ?

He put the price up and we walked away was what I heard.

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Fri May 05, 2023 10:15 am

Was it Tan who decided that Cardiff were changing colours and playing in red at home ?

He did and also built an extension on the stadium and put red seats in

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑

Fri May 05, 2023 10:25 am

He put the price up and we walked away was what I heard.

Yes, reported he increased the asking price and so Pace and the board decided not to buy and use the funds to help Kompany improve the squad.

Further report today this might be happening.

eastcoastclaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 12:28 pm

Further report today this might be happening.

15 million plus 2 million to Cardiff

eastcoastclaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 12:28 pm

Further report today this might be happening.

Where?

Sorry just found it myself

https://www.hln.be/belgisch-voetbal/bur ... ~ae123a37/

Interesting that the Dutch for "Pole Position' appears to be ' Poleposition "

What would be the benefit of owning a club in Belgium as opposed to a traditional feeder club arrangement?

FeedTheArf wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 12:49 pm

What would be the benefit of owning a club in Belgium as opposed to a traditional feeder club arrangement?

Direct control over everything they do the way they play. Players that we want from them etc etc its complete control.

Does it still help with signing of future younger players who wouldn't pass the work permit criteria coming directly here ?

FeedTheArf wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 12:49 pm

What would be the benefit of owning a club in Belgium as opposed to a traditional feeder club arrangement?

Only thing I can think is if we buy a young player who doesn't have a work permit who is Belgian / European, it will allow them to go play for this club on loan and accumulate enough games to be able to then get a work permit to play for us.

They would also get better talent than they can afford to buy themselves via Burnley.

I don't know how it works exactly but it probably means we're looking to develop European talent (not necessarily just Belgian) with the promise of the potential of playing in England if they do well.

trawlen wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 12:59 pm

Only thing I can think is if we buy a young player who doesn't have a work permit who is Belgian / European, it will allow them to go play for this club on loan and accumulate enough games to be able to then get a work permit to play for us.

They would also get better talent than they can afford to buy themselves via Burnley.

I don't know how it works exactly but it probably means we're looking to develop European talent (not necessarily just Belgian) with the promise of the potential of playing in England if they do well.

Yes I’d agree with this, though it doesn’t have to just be European talent. Mitoma had to spend a year on loan at Tony Bloom’s Union in Belgium before playing for Brighton this season. Union have another player this season set for Brighton who looks a talent, though his name escapes me.

Did the previous relationship benefit Cardiff in any way?

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 1:15 pm

Did the previous relationship benefit Cardiff in any way?

I was wondering that myself

Is this the reason we haven't pushed ahead with Cat 1 for the Academy. We see it as a better option.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 1:15 pm

Did the previous relationship benefit Cardiff in any way?

Don’t think anything their owner does is beneficial to them

This is an effective method. New signings and the work permit issue and young lads going over from Burnley to play a higher standard than youth football. KVK have a badge a bit similar to Burnley's, with the upward V.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 1:14 pm

Yes I’d agree with this, though it doesn’t have to just be European talent. Mitoma had to spend a year on loan at Tony Bloom’s Union in Belgium before playing for Brighton this season. Union have another player this season set for Brighton who looks a talent, though his name escapes me.

I think this is definitely one of the benefits. Every club's relationship is different and not sure how much Cardiff have utilised/benefited from the partnership but certainly the Brighton/USG partnership seems to be a lot more in sync. Didn't the much-linked Deniz Undav sign for Brighton from USG and then go back on loan to continue his development?

Kortijk, as I think I said before, is also a lovely place to visit so any excuse for a return is welcome!

The trend of both Brighton and Brentford owners is to own another club, quite how formal the financials links would be to BFC as an entity as opposed to ALK we would have to see, I’m not aware of how others do it.

But as this is an investment that will retain some value, one that may be funded with further debt, I can start to see some benefits, and if players can increase in value there before being signed by Burnley it is also easy to see it as a profitable investment. Whether our youngsters are good enough to go there I am not sure. They have a few players valued over €1m and the league is good standard as we have seen.

The bit that our own fans are likely to forget is that KV themselves have their own fans, who will want success. They are little but have things like 4th place finishes and cup runners up in their record this century.

Helps players like Enock Agyei who we signed in January and needed experience before gaining a work permit with us. Was sent to play with Steven Defour at Mechelen, I'm guessing with a guarantee of some gametime.

Can only be a positive as we've found some gems can be unearthed after playing in that league. Plus it gives us all a team to follow elsewhere. Bet the beer is good in Kortrijk.

I wondered why this thread had suddenly resurfaced but now seen the link - did like the line: "White smoke is expected in South-West Flanders by next week at the latest."

On the subject of English clubs buying clubs in Belgium, Manchester United were the pioneers with Royal Antwerp many years ago. They got young players out there on loan and used it to get through the work permit issues. Neil Wood, Luke Chadwick and Tom Heaton all had loans at RA during their time at United.

At the time our current ownership were buying Burnley, they were trying to acquire Spezia in Italy but missed out.

Wonder if we’d have a friendly with them? Quite exciting really - be nice to look out for another teams results with a link to Burnley and keeping an eye on their better players.

jedi_master wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 1:35 pm

Wonder if we’d have a friendly with them? Quite exciting really - be nice to look out for another teams results with a link to Burnley and keeping an eye on their better players.

Do you not keep an eye on Ayr, Llandudno, Portadown & Cobh?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 1:37 pm

Do you not keep an eye on Ayr, Llandudno, Portadown & Cobh?

I confess that until you mentioned that I’d forgotten that it even happened!

jedi_master wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 1:38 pm

I confess that until you mentioned that I’d forgotten that it even happened!

Me too to be honest, you never hear anything at all about the partnership but last month, following the win against Middlesbrough, Cobh Ramblers posted: "Congratulations to our partner club Burnley on securing their promotion to the Premier League yesterday." So it must still exist.

ArmchairDetective wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 1:30 pm

Helps players like Enock Agyei who we signed in January and needed experience before gaining a work permit with us. Was sent to play with Steven Defour at Mechelen, I'm guessing with a guarantee of some gametime.

Can only be a positive as we've found some gems can be unearthed after playing in that league. Plus it gives us all a team to follow elsewhere. Bet the beer is good in Kortrijk.

It certainly is - the local pils beer is Bockor Pils and is very nice! Also had the best steak tartare I think I've ever had at a place called Café West-Vlaanderen in the main square there.

Ightenhill_Claret wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 1:55 pm

It certainly is - the local pils beer is Bockor Pils and is very nice! Also had the best steak tartare I think I've ever had at a place called Café West-Vlaanderen in the main square there.

That's the next weekend away sorted then!

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 1:30 pm

I wondered why this thread had suddenly resurfaced but now seen the link - did like the line: "White smoke is expected in South-West Flanders by next week at the latest."

So did I. Does this mean you are going to incorporate some phrase like this in a future epistle? Go on......

Perhaps it's a Catholic region. I note that it was run by the Duke of Burgundy at one point. Perhaps it is twinned with Pimlico (see Passport to Pimlico).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kortrijk#History

FeedTheArf wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 12:49 pm

What would be the benefit of owning a club in Belgium as opposed to a traditional feeder club arrangement?

The Brexit nightmare.

Hipper wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 2:10 pm

So did I. Does this mean you are going to incorporate some phrase like this in a future epistle? Go on......

Perhaps it's a Catholic region. I note that it was run by the Duke of Burgundy at one point. Perhaps it is twinned with Pimlico (see Passport to Pimlico).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kortrijk#History

I don't think I could come up with quality lines like that

Are we for or against dual ownership and the multi-club model as I get confused? Historically it seems the consensus on here was that its a bit dodgy and shouldn't be allowed but if we decided to do it and benefit from it would that mean its now kosher?

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 3:00 pm

Are we for or against dual ownership and the multi-club model as I get confused? Historically it seems the consensus on here was that its a bit dodgy and shouldn't be allowed but if we decided to do it and benefit from it would that mean its now kosher?

I think it's a logical choice that probably causes more headaches than people want, but it helps us fight some of the Brexit work permit issues and is a good pathway for youth.

I don't mind the Academy taking a back seat for a while if it helps us do this - this has more potential to bring players through quickly.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 3:00 pm

Are we for or against dual ownership and the multi-club model as I get confused? Historically it seems the consensus on here was that its a bit dodgy and shouldn't be allowed but if we decided to do it and benefit from it would that mean its now kosher?

can’t speak for everyone but my issue with it in the past has been when the likes of Watford receive an 18m fee from Udinese for a player worth not even a quarter of that. The way that Brighton and Brentford do it seems like a good way to go.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 3:11 pm

can’t speak for everyone but my issue with it in the past has been when the likes of Watford receive an 18m fee from Udinese for a player worth not even a quarter of that. The way that Brighton and Brentford do it seems like a good way to go.

Watford were, shall we say, using the link to aid financial matters.

So the positives are

We might send players there for experience?
We might send players there to help with work permits?
We might have first dibs on their prospects?
We could have a permanent scouting network for Belgium through their club?

Negatives

ALK might loan money from Burnley to buy the club for their company? (25m interest free)
ALK priorities might be building their new club up to our standards? Directors and investment moving over to Belgium?

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 3:23 pm

ALK might loan money from Burnley to buy the club for their company? (25m interest free)
ALK priorities might be building their new club up to our standards? Directors and investment moving over to Belgium?

Doubt either of those but I'm not a financial expert.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 3:12 pm

Watford were, shall we say, using the link to aid financial matters.

Surprised there hasn't been more reports of Udinese fans kicking off at the situation. It's basically milking one club to prop up another.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 3:23 pm

So the positives are

We might send players there for experience?
We might send players there to help with work permits?
We might have first dibs on their prospects?
We could have a permanent scouting network for Belgium through their club?

Negatives

ALK might loan money from Burnley to buy the club for their company? (25m interest free)
ALK priorities might be building their new club up to our standards? Directors and investment moving over to Belgium?

Multi club models usually have the one, higher, profile club with the others further down the chain with everything designed to support the main club

In this instance, Burnley will always be bigger than than Kortrijk.

Exciting times!

Sounds like passionate atmosphere, old fashioned stadium, small town, traditional values and punching above their weight.

I can see the deemed fit, all to a smaller size than Burnley but similar characteristics.

Quite how the Tam ownership has changed things I do not know.

Banner printed in English, love it!

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 3:00 pm

Are we for or against dual ownership and the multi-club model as I get confused? Historically it seems the consensus on here was that its a bit dodgy and shouldn't be allowed but if we decided to do it and benefit from it would that mean its now kosher?

It seems to not get a huge amount of publicity but it could well be one of the things that really breaks football.

If we do go down the route of owning another club abroad, I hope that the benefit really is mutual.

If the boot was on the other foot, I’m not sure what I’d make of it if everything my club did was to benefit another.

Hopefully, if done properly, it might see the other club having a better standard of player and increase their own chances of achieving something as a club.

Wonder if they fancy a historic if beleaguered Czech team to add to the group? Could be handy to blood u18s

Not sure how I feel about this, if honest

Think we have other priorities that need our fairly limited resources allocating to first

Another positive that hasn't been mentioned is the chance to go over and watch a game at our sister club where they have some great Belgium beers to try out.

Another example of "taking back control" .... In order to access just a fraction of what was freely available pre-Brexit (the deep pool of football talent playing in continental Europe), we'll borrow millions of £ to buy and then run a football club in Belgium that until recently few of us had ever heard of .... Brilliant.