The Treble

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quoonbeatz
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Re: The Treble

Post by quoonbeatz » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:47 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:59 pm
Nonsense. They are just far better run than most at this current time. Madrid won the Champions League 3 times out of 4 recently didn’t they? Chelsea spent more money this season than City have in the past 3. United have spent more money than City since Pep joined. Think you are doing a disservice to Pep and what he’s done there.
No disservice at all. They have the top managers, the top players and the overall best team in the world but they start as one of, if not the red hot favourites for every competition they play in so its not really that impressive that they win them all.

CoolClaret
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Re: The Treble

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:47 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:59 pm
Nonsense. They are just far better run than most at this current time. Madrid won the Champions League 3 times out of 4 recently didn’t they? Chelsea spent more money this season than City have in the past 3. United have spent more money than City since Pep joined. Think you are doing a disservice to Pep and what he’s done there.
Precisely this.

Some of the fees United have spaffed on players is obscene.

Pogba, Antony, Maguire, Sancho to name a few… big rumours on Mount going for a ridiculous fee as well.

Pep just an elite coach and knows how to actually sign players that will improve the team, rather than chucking massive money at dross.

Lots of bitter reds out there that can’t see their own hypocrisy.

Of course there’s an argument that the money is ruining the game - but that’s not unique to City at all, despite fans of United trying to suggest that. Very, very bitter

quoonbeatz
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Re: The Treble

Post by quoonbeatz » Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:16 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:47 pm
Precisely this.

Some of the fees United have spaffed on players is obscene.

Pogba, Antony, Maguire, Sancho to name a few… big rumours on Mount going for a ridiculous fee as well.

Pep just an elite coach and knows how to actually sign players that will improve the team, rather than chucking massive money at dross.

Lots of bitter reds out there that can’t see their own hypocrisy.

Of course there’s an argument that the money is ruining the game - but that’s not unique to City at all, despite fans of United trying to suggest that. Very, very bitter
Not remotely my point. City are way ahead of everyone in terms of manager, players and the club at large. It's not that impressive that they win everything because they should. When united won the treble, they weren't on a different planet to practically everyone, like city are now.

CoolClaret
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Re: The Treble

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:19 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:16 pm
Not remotely my point. City are way ahead of everyone in terms of manager, players and the club at large. It's not that impressive that they win everything because they should. When united won the treble, they weren't on a different planet to practically everyone, like city are now.
Ok - I wasn’t arguing it from that perspective.. I mean in terms of playstyle & dominance

I still don’t think that they’re ‘expected to win the treble’ - can anyone really be expected to do that?

quoonbeatz
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Re: The Treble

Post by quoonbeatz » Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:21 pm

Yeah I'd say so, they were going to win the Champans Ligue sooner rather than later and, given theres no one to touch them in England, once they signed Haaland I think most people expected them to win everything.

Spijed
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Re: The Treble

Post by Spijed » Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:42 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:59 pm
Nonsense. They are just far better run than most at this current time. Madrid won the Champions League 3 times out of 4 recently didn’t they? Chelsea spent more money this season than City have in the past 3. United have spent more money than City since Pep joined. Think you are doing a disservice to Pep and what he’s done there.
But how are Everton likely to be punished for FFP and Man City aren't?

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Re: The Treble

Post by Darthlaw » Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:55 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:34 pm
Let’s not pretend that United also don’t spend ridiculous money - or even back then.. their squad wasn’t completely composed of youth players at all and had record signings in numerous positions.

It’s more impressive in terms of the way they’re winning.

United didn’t blow past teams like City does
Firstly, the Man U team had the Neville brothers, Scholes, Butt, Giggs and Beckham ( even possibly Wes Brown) all from the youth team, who all played a major part in their treble winning season. City have Foden (possibly Lewis at a push). I appreciate you’re trying to justify a (ridiculously) weak point, but to deny Man U were less than 40% youth players that season, just shows how your bitterness is clouding your judgment.

As has been pointed out already on this thread, the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham and Man U have to spend the money to compete with first Chelsea, then Man City and no doubt soon to be Newcastle. Prior to that, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man U still spent plenty, the difference being that they earned it, not subsidised in contravention of FFP with hyper inflated sponsorship deals, they earned it.

City might have an amazing manager (although Kompany arguably has taken and beaten a challenge Pep would never take on). They have an amazing team and play amazing football. Given the money they’ve spent and operating under their own financial rules, they’ve only achieved exactly what would be expected.

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Re: The Treble

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:13 pm

Darthlaw wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:55 pm
Firstly, the Man U team had the Neville brothers, Scholes, Butt, Giggs and Beckham ( even possibly Wes Brown) all from the youth team, who all played a major part in their treble winning season. City have Foden (possibly Lewis at a push). I appreciate you’re trying to justify a (ridiculously) weak point, but to deny Man U were less than 40% youth players that season, just shows how your bitterness is clouding your judgment.

As has been pointed out already on this thread, the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham and Man U have to spend the money to compete with first Chelsea, then Man City and no doubt soon to be Newcastle. Prior to that, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man U still spent plenty, the difference being that they earned it, not subsidised in contravention of FFP with hyper inflated sponsorship deals, they earned it.

City might have an amazing manager (although Kompany arguably has taken and beaten a challenge Pep would never take on). They have an amazing team and play amazing football. Given the money they’ve spent and operating under their own financial rules, they’ve only achieved exactly what would be expected.
I find it hard to have any sympathy and try the woe is me approach that reds tend to have when talking about City - they were advocates for paying more than everyone else, no wage cap and starting the Premier League back in the day

The money in football has gone up pretty much exponentially as the PL has grown and the popularity/tv right sold etc etc have gone up around the world

United these days chuck daft money at players

Antony, Maguire, Pogba etc

Then you get Pep who comparatively has turned Akanji into an absolute world beater. No comparison

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Re: The Treble

Post by Darthlaw » Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:26 pm

For Pep’s Akanji, there’s £49m worth of Kalvin Phillips or £34m worth of Ferran Torres or £57m worth of Mendy, £30m of Danilo, £18m of Claudio Bravo, £18m of Nolito.

For all those he got right (which is more than not) Peps not immune from an expensive stinker either, you know,

Good of you to swerve your totally ******** claim about Man U’s homegrown team in 99, btw. Might wanna address how Fergie turned Giggs, Scholes and Beckham into some of the finest players the game has seen.

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Re: The Treble

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:55 pm

Darthlaw wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:26 pm
For Pep’s Akanji, there’s £49m worth of Kalvin Phillips or £34m worth of Ferran Torres or £57m worth of Mendy, £30m of Danilo, £18m of Claudio Bravo, £18m of Nolito.

For all those he got right (which is more than not) Peps not immune from an expensive stinker either, you know,

Good of you to swerve your totally ******** claim about Man U’s homegrown team in 99, btw.
Are you a closet red or something?

In that United team was Yorke, Stam, Keane & Cole who were all signed for record fees by United at the time - the fees are nowhere near what is banded about in football like it is today admittedly, but the entirety of football is massively inflated.

Literally all the teams at the top are spending insane money - I don't think thats unique to City though they do splash it around.

As for City youth, Cole Palmer and Rico Lewis have played 14 league games each this season and you could put the argument forward that City/Pep has been a positive to the English game as a whole with his massive improvement to players - he's made John Stones, Kyle Walker, Grealish & Foden into excellent players (Stones and Walker absolute world beaters) that has only been a positive to the national team.

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Re: The Treble

Post by Darthlaw » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:19 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:55 pm
Are you a closet red or something?

In that United team was Yorke, Stam, Keane & Cole who were all signed for record fees by United at the time - the fees are nowhere near what is banded about in football like it is today admittedly, but the entirety of football is massively inflated.

Literally all the teams at the top are spending insane money - I don't think thats unique to City though they do splash it around.

As for City youth, Cole Palmer and Rico Lewis have played 14 league games each this season and you could put the argument forward that City/Pep has been a positive to the English game as a whole with his massive improvement to players - he's made John Stones, Kyle Walker, Grealish & Foden into excellent players (Stones and Walker absolute world beaters) that has only been a positive to the national team.
Only as much as you’re an overt blue. Bless though, Roy Keane being signed 6 years before Man U winning the treble is really clutching at straws btw.

Palmer and Lewis have APPEARED in 14 games each btw, the same as Wes Brown in the Man U treble winning season, which I also acknowledged. Yet still you fail to recognize Man U had six regular starters in that treble winning team to Man City’s one. Just admit you’ve massively got that wrong before you look like a total Cityzen.

Also, Fergie bringing Scholes, Gary Neville and Beckham to the England team wasn’t half bad either, even if they had similar issues with England Managers misusing the resource.

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Re: The Treble

Post by Sproggy » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:32 pm

Looking at what City have done and pointing at Utd is whataboutery at its finest.

City have had a plan which they have executed brilliantly and which looks to be finally delivering the Champions League this season. I think the phrase '"operating under their own financial rules" is an excellent way of putting it. They have attracted sponsorship and spent money seemingly way beyond other clubs of their size. They almost have the best player available in every position, and a squad where they can replace like for like with very little drop in quality. They are probably the best club side ever. They should win every game they play.

They're also accused by the FA of cheating on an industrial scale. If any of the 115 charges against them stick, their achievements this season will be followed by a (*). They're more comparable to Lance Armstrong than they are to Man Utd or Chelsea.

CoolClaret
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Re: The Treble

Post by CoolClaret » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:56 pm

Darthlaw wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:19 pm
Only as much as you’re an overt blue. Bless though, Roy Keane being signed 6 years before Man U winning the treble is really clutching at straws btw.

Palmer and Lewis have APPEARED in 14 games each btw, the same as Wes Brown in the Man U treble winning season, which I also acknowledged. Yet still you fail to recognize Man U had six regular starters in that treble winning team to Man City’s one. Just admit you’ve massively got that wrong before you look like a total Cityzen.

Also, Fergie bringing Scholes, Gary Neville and Beckham to the England team wasn’t half bad either, even if they had similar issues with England Managers misusing the resource.
Not really - simply saying the way in which they play the game along with the manner in which they win is better than I've ever witnessed

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: The Treble

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:30 pm


CoolClaret
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Re: The Treble

Post by CoolClaret » Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:36 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:30 pm
https://twitter.com/WayneSBarton/status ... jiAXQ&s=19

This is a good read
Made a lot of assertions there to justify his belief

ITV Digital had nothing to do with the PL for a start

There has always been financial disparity in the PL.. One could argue the quality of the league throughout the teams is much higher now than it was back then, meaning to be outright winners in such a fashion really takes some doing

'before 2003 the wealth in the game stayed for the benefit of everyone' - absolute hogwash

NottsClaret
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Re: The Treble

Post by NottsClaret » Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:05 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:56 pm
Not really - simply saying the way in which they play the game along with the manner in which they win is better than I've ever witnessed
Not denying they're the best side in the world, and an incredible match-winning machine. But it was pretty funny that their goals on Saturday came from a textbook Route One punt and a set piece.

CoolClaret
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Re: The Treble

Post by CoolClaret » Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:10 pm

NottsClaret wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:05 pm
Not denying they're the best side in the world, and an incredible match-winning machine. But it was pretty funny that their goals on Saturday came from a textbook Route One punt and a set piece.
For sure - but that's part of their dominance... They really can do it all.

Good luck bullying them or scoring from a set piece or whatever - literally no weakness

Claretmisterg
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Re: The Treble

Post by Claretmisterg » Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:15 pm

Comparing great teams from different eras is impractical. If City do the treble it will be a fantastic achievement. It was similarly a fantastic achievement when United did it in 1999. This reminds me of the debate when Arsenal won the double in 1971 and comparing them to the Spurs team of 1961.

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