FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

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Pickles
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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Pickles » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:32 pm

Really harsh pen that. But if the ball touches the hand it's a pen, just the way it is.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:33 pm

It’s beyond harsh. It’s a bloody nonsense.
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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Rick_Muller » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:33 pm

That should never be a penalty, if ever there was an example of ball to hand that is it. I know it’s the rules now but that is ridiculous

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by CoolClaret » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:33 pm

VAR is absolutely disgusting

It gets worse every single season

GET RID
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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:33 pm

Ridiculous.
This is what we can look forward to next season ... and they aren't likely to be going in our favour.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Kgun5 » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:34 pm

Pickles wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:32 pm
Really harsh pen that. But if the ball touches the hand it's a pen, just the way it is.
As long as it’s consistent, I guess. But should that really be worth a goal?

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:34 pm

farcical

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Ric_C » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:34 pm

Another pukey VAR decision. Absolute joke

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by distortiondave » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:34 pm

By no definition of the rules could that be considered deliberate handball.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Pickles » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:34 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:33 pm
VAR is absolutely disgusting

It gets worse every single season

GET RID
It's less about VAR and more about the rules, which are crap.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:34 pm

The handball law is the problem there, not VAR. Grealish raised his arm and made his body bigger.
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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by yTib » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:34 pm

disgraceful decision.

var is turning referees into jelly-kneed weaklings.

shocking.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Pickles » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:35 pm

distortiondave wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:34 pm
By no definition of the rules could that be considered deliberate handball.
Doesn't have to be deliberate.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:35 pm

Quite ironic if playing a “FA Cup Keeper” costs a side a treble. Not a certainty Ederson saves it of course.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by claretinkorea » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:35 pm

Just about the most rediculous penalty for handball I've ever seen. Flabbergasted...

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:35 pm

Makes for a better game anyway which is all I’m really bothered about in this instance.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:36 pm

How can not one, but two of our "top" officials come to that conclusion.
It's humans that have ruined VAR , not the technology itself.
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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:36 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:34 pm
The handball law is the problem there, not VAR. Grealish raised his arm and made his body bigger.
Agree, the hand ball law is a nonsense. That’s an absolutely ridiculous decision.
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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by beddie » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:36 pm

He’s given it because it’s the Final. Shocking decision.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Buxtonclaret » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:36 pm

Pathetic giving a pen for that.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:36 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:36 pm
How can not one, but two of our "top" officials come to that conclusion.
It's humans that have ruined VAR , not the technology itself.
There isn’t really any technology though, it’s just a bloke watching a replay….and the VAR didn’t give the decision, the ref did.
Last edited by Rileybobs on Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by RVclaret » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:36 pm

Hard to know what is and isn’t handball to be honest

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:36 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:36 pm
How can not one, but two of our "top" officials come to that conclusion.
It's humans that have ruined VAR , not the technology itself.
As Rileybobs has said, it’s not VAR but the ridiculous handball law.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Roosterbooster » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:37 pm

Pickles wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:32 pm
Really harsh pen that. But if the ball touches the hand it's a pen, just the way it is.
That's not the rule
The rules don't allow for that being given as a pen

But the interpretations currently ignore the rules consistently

Absolute joke

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by claretinkorea » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:37 pm

Pickles wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:35 pm
Doesn't have to be deliberate.
I'm pretty sure it does.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by beddie » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:37 pm

So why didn’t VAR tell the ref to look at the Casimero incident. It’s ridiculous.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by SalisburyClaret » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:37 pm

VAR gets something right for a change - It’s the rule that’s nonsense

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by distortiondave » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:38 pm

Pickles wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:35 pm
Doesn't have to be deliberate.
No, I know. It did back in the day though.
I don't suppose there is a perfect system, but imagine winning or losing a cup final because of that.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:38 pm

I can understand us fans not understanding the handball rule, and ref interpretation advice, but what I don’t understand is how so many players don’t.

That was a penalty based on rules and this season’s guidance, but it shouldn’t be of course. Wasn’t hand to ball nor a deliberate attempt to make himself bigger, but unnaturally bigger he was nonetheless.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:38 pm

claretinkorea wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:37 pm
I'm pretty sure it does.
It doesn’t.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:38 pm

claretinkorea wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:37 pm
I'm pretty sure it does.
No it doesn’t. It’s his arm not being in a natural position. I’m not sure where he’s supposed to put his arm.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Kgun5 » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:39 pm

beddie wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:37 pm
So why didn’t VAR tell the ref to look at the Casimero incident. It’s ridiculous.
Again, the rules are the problem. All VAR can do is look for a red card violation.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:39 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:36 pm
There isn’t really any technology though, it’s just a bloke watching a replay….and the VAR didn’t give the decision, the ref did.
Surely that's what I said?
I said it was humans making the decisions not the VAR.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:39 pm

jump up in the air and see where your hands on on the way down, exactly where Grealish's hands were - it's another complete failure of a decision in our domestic game - BUT that gets given in the Champions league final as their rules seem to be if it hands your hand it gets given no matter what. Rules needs to change or VAR needs ******* off

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:40 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:39 pm
Surely that's what I said?
I said it was humans making the decisions not the VAR.
But the VAR is a human.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Roosterbooster » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:41 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:38 pm
I can understand us fans not understanding the handball rule, and ref interpretation advice, but what I don’t understand is how so many players don’t.

That was a penalty based on rules and this season’s guidance, but it shouldn’t be of course. Wasn’t hand to ball nor a deliberate attempt to make himself bigger, but unnaturally bigger he was nonetheless.
That's not the rule though

In the specific act of play, his arm was in a natural position, as a consequence of his movement to defend the long ball
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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by ClaretMat » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:41 pm

I think Graelish panics when the ball goes over his head to be honest. Whether if it's the momentum of his spin that takes his arm up or he instinctively sticks it in the air who knows.
Maybe wasn't clear and obvious so questionable that it should have been reviewed but it's a pen in today's rules. His arm's way up in the air.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by claretinkorea » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:41 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:38 pm
No it doesn’t. It’s his arm not being in a natural position. I’m not sure where he’s supposed to put his arm.
Isn't this the point though. It is in a natural position because you can't jump properly without balancing with your arms. It's a more natural position than trying jump with your hands by your sides.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Roosterbooster » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:42 pm

In comparison, that last pen shout was 100% certain

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by beddie » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:42 pm

No pen again by var against KD. All day long that one.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Ric_C » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:42 pm

Who's running VAR today? Bobby Charlton?

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Pickles » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:42 pm

It doesn't have to be deliberate. It's one of my pet hates when people say it is or isn't a pen because it's deliberate or not. That hasn't been the rule for years.

Here are the rules. The penalty we've just seen must have been given because of the unnatural body shape thing. But I, and I suspect most, think the interpretation of it is bobbins.
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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by fidelcastro » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:43 pm

Please can someone tell me what the handball law is nowadays?

If we're now saying it's a penalty if it hits a hand in the area, then how come done still aren't given? 🤷

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:43 pm

Roosterbooster wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:42 pm
In comparison, that last pen shout was 100% certain
3 borderline decisions reviewed by VAR and all have gone United’s way.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:43 pm

ClaretMat wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:41 pm
but it's a pen in today's rules. His arm's way up in the air.
And that is the problem

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Kgun5 » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:43 pm

claretinkorea wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:41 pm
Isn't this the point though. It is in a natural position because you can't jump properly without balancing with your arms. It's a more natural position than trying jump with your hands by your sides.
This is the crux of the rule’s problem. Natural position is defined differently and poorly by the powers that be.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:44 pm

I think if the ball had hit Grealish’s arm as it was on the way down it wouldn’t have been given, but for some reason he raises his arm after he misses the ball and that second action is why the penalty was given.

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by bumba » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:45 pm

Isn't handball supposed to be deliberate?
Never a penalty but think City should of had one at the other end

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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by claretinkorea » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:45 pm

Indeed, it should be the intent to stop a ball with your hand that leads to a penalty. Sometimes the refs just need to use a bit of common sense although this seems to be a rare commodity.
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Re: FA Cup Final - City Vs Utd

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:46 pm

claretinkorea wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:45 pm
Indeed, it should be the intent to stop a ball with your hand that leads to a penalty. Sometimes the refs just need to use a bit of common sense although this seems to be a rare commodity.
All the refs did were apply the laws of the game which is surely what we want them to do.

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