Moral Dilemma ...

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Post Reply
Clarets4me
Posts: 4948
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:31 pm
Been Liked: 2307 times
Has Liked: 1033 times
Location: Ightenhill,Burnley

Moral Dilemma ...

Post by Clarets4me » Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:57 pm

OK, so here's the thing ....

Mrs Clarets4me and I have an interest in family history, and recently sought out my mother's family in the 1921 Census, now available on-line. I found my Grandmother's parents, with what I thought were their 3 youngest children, living in a tied Cottage near Thirsk. However, the youngest son, as we knew him is listed as a " Grandson ". Intrigued, I applied for his birth certificate. To my shock, it listed my unmarried Grandmother, then aged 20, as the child's mother. She was " in service " at the time ( 1916 ) in a Country House in North Yorkshire.

My first thought was sympathy for having to go through the ordeal, and I hope it was the result of two young people getting carried away, and not any abuse of position by Employer etc ..My Grandmother married in 1930, and my Mum and Aunt are now 87 and 89 respectively. My Grannie died in 1995, 6 months short of her 100th Birthday.

I've told my two Sisters and two Cousins, and we're all in agreement that we shouldn't tell our Mothers, that their Uncle " G ", was in fact their half-brother. " G " lost a leg whilst serving as a dispatch rider with the " Desert Rats " in North Africa during WW2, and died in 1980, aged 63 ... he himself was married, but I cannot trace any children ...

What would you do ? Do they have a right to know ?

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14562
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:07 pm

Does them knowing serve any purpose?
They might already know, these things have a habit of coming out eventually and they just chose to keep it quiet

My cousin was raised by her "mum" but it turned out that was actually her nan and her "sister" was her mum.

She found out eventually, when she was in her 20's I think, but it didn't change anything, mum was mum, sis was sis because that's what she was used too.

dsr
Posts: 15132
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4548 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by dsr » Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:08 pm

They have a right to know but that doesn't mean the right should be exercised. (In the same way as we all have a right to buy Blackburn Rovers season tickets, but we don't. )

If it would upset them, then what's the point? It's not as if they get any benefit from it. There are times when you have to take difficult decisions about what to tell old people, and this is one of those times. Whether the decision is right, wrong, or indifferent, it is a decision you have to make.

But they might care less than you think. My mother discovered that her cousin had a wrong-side-of-the-blanket baby and she couldn't care less about the circumstances. She was very pleased to gain an extra relative. If there were side benefits like that, then it would be a different question.

Or they might already know and have decided not to tell you!

Clarets4me
Posts: 4948
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:31 pm
Been Liked: 2307 times
Has Liked: 1033 times
Location: Ightenhill,Burnley

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by Clarets4me » Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:13 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:07 pm
Does them knowing serve any purpose ? They might already know, these things have a habit of coming out eventually and they just chose to keep it quiet
That was our view, it could only cause them upset ... I think my mother would be quite sanguine about it, but my widowed Aunt is a strict Baptist, and in a Residential Home and the first thing both my Cousin's said was " I'm not telling Mum " ...

I'm 99% sure that they don't know, Mum's not that good an actress ..

ClaretTony
Posts: 67422
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 32237 times
Has Liked: 5253 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:18 pm

The issues with looking back. My cousin went digging and found out initially that my great grandma was only twelve years older than my granddad, her son. That was a hell of a shock but it turned out that she was his step mum.

There are always skeletons. In your case, with them being 87 & 89, I’d just not tell them. I can’t see what purpose it would serve if you did. I know it is in effect a white lie but in this case it’s worth it.

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30273
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10916 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:20 pm

zero point in telling them, nothing whatsoever for them to gain at this stage from that knowledge

DCWat
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:04 am
Been Liked: 4131 times
Has Liked: 3597 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by DCWat » Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:30 pm

If you think that your Mum would be OK with it, might it be worth telling her and getting another view on whether or not her sister should be told as well?

AlargeClaret
Posts: 4425
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:55 pm
Been Liked: 1147 times
Has Liked: 180 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by AlargeClaret » Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:35 pm

I don’t think telling late 80’s parents that type of thing has much use , some things best left unsaid after so long . You have to ask “ are there any real guaranteed positives” ? Vs what might be a stressful uneccessary experience.

distortiondave
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:28 pm
Been Liked: 400 times
Has Liked: 69 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by distortiondave » Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:35 pm

You could ask them in a roundabout sort of way.

'Here, there's this Burnley fan on the messageboard the other day who said he'd just found out his auntie was actually his sister!
Crikey o'blimey. Would you want to know if owt like that came up in our family?'

FCBurnley
Posts: 9695
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:56 pm
Been Liked: 1967 times
Has Liked: 1132 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by FCBurnley » Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:35 pm

If you don’t want to know the answer don’t ask the question

Burnley1989
Posts: 7345
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 am
Been Liked: 2273 times
Has Liked: 2153 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by Burnley1989 » Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:49 pm

Extremely common in those days, we found photos of my grandpa during the Second World War when he was in the RAF, he was with 2 children and nobody has a clue who they are. We found the photo in my nannas belongings when she died and he was a lot older than her.
We believe the photos are from his time spitfire training in Texas, who knows… nobody in my family seems interesting in finding out anyway.

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1179 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:11 pm

It's amazing how many secrets dusty attics are holding.

Oshkoshclaret
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:18 pm
Been Liked: 317 times
Has Liked: 83 times
Location: Dallas, TX & Jefferson, MD
Contact:

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by Oshkoshclaret » Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:15 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:49 pm
Extremely common in those days, we found photos of my grandpa during the Second World War when he was in the RAF, he was with 2 children and nobody has a clue who they are. We found the photo in my nannas belongings when she died and he was a lot older than her.
We believe the photos are from his time spitfire training in Texas, who knows… nobody in my family seems interesting in finding out anyway.
That was highly likely the British Flying Training School in Terrell. They have a museum that would be interested in the photo and might be able to help: https://www.bftsmuseum.org
This user liked this post: Burnley1989

IanMcL
Posts: 30123
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:27 pm
Been Liked: 6340 times
Has Liked: 8651 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by IanMcL » Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:20 pm

Certainly don't raise the subject. Not news they would want in the open, at their time of life.

They may, of course, already know and decided it was a secret best not aired.

Either way, it's your secret now.

Burnley1989
Posts: 7345
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 am
Been Liked: 2273 times
Has Liked: 2153 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by Burnley1989 » Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:54 pm

Oshkoshclaret wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:15 pm
That was highly likely the British Flying Training School in Terrell. They have a museum that would be interested in the photo and might be able to help: https://www.bftsmuseum.org
Really appreciate that mate

timshorts
Posts: 2534
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:52 pm
Been Liked: 410 times
Has Liked: 307 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by timshorts » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:40 pm

It's probably all too long in this case, but if there is anyone out there that is in similar but more recent circumstances, get anybody affected by it to make a will. As soon as you get an intestacy, where entitlement is based on exact relationships, this sort of thing often comes out in the open.

It's bad enough finding out that x is only a half-blood sister of y, but these are worse. Generally, they seem to crop up most often where Catholicism was involved. I guess there's a reason for that.

Vintage Claret
Posts: 2201
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:03 pm
Been Liked: 932 times
Has Liked: 607 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by Vintage Claret » Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:30 am

If it ain't broke don't fix it..

CharlieinNewMexico
Posts: 3109
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:53 am
Been Liked: 815 times
Has Liked: 527 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by CharlieinNewMexico » Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:35 am

Water under the bridge and all that 🤷

bobinho
Posts: 9247
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:48 pm
Been Liked: 4069 times
Has Liked: 6535 times
Location: Burnley

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by bobinho » Sat Jun 10, 2023 8:14 am

I’d be inclined to leave it be.

This may sound harsh, and I don’t mean it to be, but…. You went looking and this is what you found. You own it now. It’s yours to keep. I see no benefit in sharing this information, just an opportunity for you to relieve yourself of some of the responsibility you now have. (Not suggesting that’s your motive btw, merely that it’s a by-product) I’d suggest that responsibility is keeping it to yourself as nothing will be gained by anyone in revealing it. It may even be quite upsetting for some.

I’d maybe share it with a loved one (spouse) who could listen and keep the secret, but I’d steer well clear of a family announcement.

Clarets4me
Posts: 4948
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:31 pm
Been Liked: 2307 times
Has Liked: 1033 times
Location: Ightenhill,Burnley

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by Clarets4me » Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:14 am

Thank you all for some thoughtful and considered responses. As I suspected, almost everyone agrees that there is no upside whatsoever in telling my Mother and Aunt ... Her five Grandchildren know, and that's enough ...

BurnleyFC
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:51 am
Been Liked: 1596 times
Has Liked: 888 times

Re: Moral Dilemma ...

Post by BurnleyFC » Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:24 pm

distortiondave wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:35 pm
You could ask them in a roundabout sort of way.

'Here, there's this Burnley fan on the messageboard the other day who said he'd just found out his auntie was actually his sister!
Crikey o'blimey. Would you want to know if owt like that came up in our family?'
A regular topic on BRFCS.

Post Reply