West Indian Cricket ...

[Clarets4me]

Struggling to qualify for the next ODI World Cup, having lost to Zimbabwe and to the Netherlands, by way of a " Super-over " earlier today . They will now have to beat Oman, Scotland & Sri Lanka in the " Super Six " section of the qualifying, and hope other results go their way to qualify for the Tournament, which starts on 5th October in India. Afghanistan & Bangladesh have already qualified with India ( hosts ), England, Australia, Pakistan, South Africa & New Zealand ...

To anyone who grew up watching the great West Indies sides of the 1970's & 80's, this is almost unthinkable. Lack of funds, corruption, the attraction of Basketball over Cricket and Inter-Island rivalry are apparently among the reasons given ... it's very sad to see

[Stalbansclaret]

I hadn't realised this. Very sad, as you say. In recent years I've also found it pretty sad to see the crowds for West Indies v England test matches in the Caribbean seemingly dominated by English tourists which also suggests the game is losing it's hold in one of it's key heritage locations. I grew up in Colne and watching Collis King smash balls over the wall into Keighley Road was just one example of the great pleasure West Indian cricketers have brought to the Lancashire League going back to the days of Learie Constantine. To say nothing of growing up watching those incredible West Indian fast bowlers and batsmen at test level. really hope things can improve..

[jdrobbo]

Brian Lara
Curtley Ambrose
Courtney Walsh
Shivnarine Chanderpaul
Jimmy Adams
Carl Hooper
Sherwin Campbell
Mervyn Dillon

Some of their 90’s team were fantastic too

[ClaretTony]

Struggling to qualify for the next ODI World Cup, having lost to Zimbabwe and to the Netherlands, by way of a " Super-over " earlier today . They will now have to beat Oman, Scotland & Sri Lanka in the " Super Six " section of the qualifying, and hope other results go their way to qualify for the Tournament, which starts on 5th October in India. Afghanistan & Bangladesh have already qualified with India ( hosts ), England, Australia, Pakistan, South Africa & New Zealand ...

To anyone who grew up watching the great West Indies sides of the 1970's & 80's, this is almost unthinkable. Lack of funds, corruption, the attraction of Basketball over Cricket and Inter-Island rivalry are apparently among the reasons given ... it's very sad to see

Starting in the 1960s through to the 1980s, they produced so many outstanding cricketers you thought no one would ever catch up with them.

But the interest has waned with, as you say, basketball has become the popular sport. There’s always been that inter-island rivalry. I remember our old friend Eli played at Bacup when Basil Butcher was pro. Butcher was from Guyana and Eli told me that he had no time for Barbadians. Clive Lloyd was the one captain who had the ability to pull them all together.

Such a shame, cricket needs a top West Indian team.

[Colburn_Claret]

Clive Lloyd, super Haz

[Taffy on the wing]

Clive Lloyd is my favourite player.......Nobody better to watch when in full flow!

[Suratclaret]

Clive Lloyd is my favourite player.......Nobody better to watch when in full flow!

His timing and power were superb. Absolutely agree that watching him in full flow was a delight. He wasn’t a bad fielder either.

[Dark Cloud]

Test matches v West Indies over here were absolutely packed in the 70s and 80s. I remember going to Old Trafford in the early 80s and Richards was facing his great mate Botham. It was absolute bedlam and such an amazing atmosphere and West Indies almost always came out on top as we simply couldn't live with them.

[ashtonlongsider]

Really sad to see, a bit like United being relegated to League 2. The teams of the seventies and eighties were on a different planet cricket wise ably led by Clive Lloyd. Its difficult to single out individuals but the era contained the best batsman i've seen in Viv Richards and two of the greatest bowlers in Marshall and Holding. Just goes to show sports for the moment.

[bfcjg]

Watching the Windies was always the highlight of cricket viewing, sad to witness the decline.

[fatboy47]

Sat at Old Trafford as a kid with my pop and crisps and little green scorebook watching those other-worldly heroes take us apart seems like a distant memory now...

Conrad hunt, Seymour Nurse, Basil Butcher... Wes Hall, Charlie Griffiths, Gary Sobers, Lance Gibbs... I could go on but it's all a bit sad tbh

[claretonthecoast1882]

The lack of money in West Indies cricket and the lure of 20/20 franchise money didn't help either along with all the in-fighting

[ClaretTony]

Sat at Old Trafford as a kid with my pop and crisps and little green scorebook watching those other-worldly heroes take us apart seems like a distant memory now...

Conrad hunt, Seymour Nurse, Basil Butcher... Wes Hall, Charlie Griffiths, Gary Sobers, Lance Gibbs... I could go on but it's all a bit sad tbh

And all but one of them was a Lancashire League pro

Hunte - Enfield
Nurse - Ramsbottom
Butcher - Bacup & Lowerhouse
Hall - Accrington
Griffith - Burnley
Gibbs - Burnley

[ClaretTony]

Clive Lloyd is my favourite player.......Nobody better to watch when in full flow!

His timing and power were superb. Absolutely agree that watching him in full flow was a delight. He wasn’t a bad fielder either.

The crowd would go to OT when he was playing for Lancs and would want us to lose two quick wickets so he could come in and bat. Decent bowler too and one of the world's great cover fielders to add to being a great captain.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

The super over was incredible
Van Beek hit 30 - probably 3 sixes and 3 fours
He then bowled the over and picked up 2 wickets
He was also out off the last ball of the 50th over
Amazing involvement for 1 player

[TheFamilyCat]

I grew up in the '80's watching us get smashed regularly by the Windies. Haynes, Greenidge, Richards, Dijon, Marshall, Holding, Garner and the rest.

I hated them at the time, they ruined by summers but what a team.

And after them there was Lara, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, Walsh & Ambrose.

Really sad to see where they are now. It's not just in the Carribbean where interest seems to be lost though, you don't see the West Indies fans at tests in England like in the past when games were like a carnival.

[Herts Clarets]

Tragic to see the decline, West Indies were the benchmark in World Cricket in the 1980s. Lightinng quick bowlers with Garner, Marshall, Holding, Bishop and then Ambrose and Walsh. And once you finally deposed the opening batters, enter the greatest batsman i have seen play the game, IVA Richards. When i moved to London at first in the late 90s, i was having a drink in the pub after work with one of my team and i mentioned to someone that i had played cricket in Burnley. Park cricket up Towneley was as far as i got. She said her brother in law also played cricket and i may know him. I don't think so, i havent played since i moved apart from a couple of work related friendlies. She insisted i may know him, his name is Desmond Haynes. As in West Indies opening batsman for what seemed like an age alongside Gordon Greenidge? Yes thats him he is married to my sister!

One weekend she stayed over with us and unbeknown to me, arranged for Des to phone me for a chat. A bit awkward, what do you say to someone you have only ever seen either on TV or at a cricket ground flaying the English bowlers to all parts of the ground?

[AfloatinClaret]

... the attraction of Basketball over Cricket ...are apparently among the reasons given

Based on conversations and observation during out time in the Caribbean - virtually full time betwen 2013 & 2017 - I've long felt that this is the biggie and undoubtedly what put an end to the WI's production-line of great fast bowlers. A young lad growing up in the islands can make far more money carving out a career in even second tier basketball in the US than he will as a West Indian cricketer -third tier basketball would pay similarly. While the growth of 20/20 cricket now offers the prospect of bigger paydays, even those aple into insignificance compared to what you'd earn should you make the grade to become a regular starter in the NBA.
Those are perhaps obvious, but it goes deeper: What gets the parents/families onboard is the education opportunity. The lad (or lass) doesn't need to make it into professional basketball, simply showing 'promise' can earn them a place at a US School/University, offering the prospect of a probably better education and certainly a more internationally accepted degree/graduation certificate at the end of it than they could achieve in the islands; this in turn can provide route to visas/residency/green card for the kid and potentially his/her family.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I grew up in the '80's watching us get smashed regularly by the Windies. Haynes, Greenidge, Richards, Dijon, Marshall, Holding, Garner and the rest.

I hated them at the time, they ruined by summers but what a team.

And after them there was Lara, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, Walsh & Ambrose.

Really sad to see where they are now. It's not just in the Carribbean where interest seems to be lost though, you don't see the West Indies fans at tests in England like in the past when games were like a carnival.

I remember that Dijon he was mustard

[AlargeClaret]

Some incredible names on this thread , the WI seemed to churn out generation after generation . They had an aura about them . First great team I remember were Richards and Grenidge/Fredricks opening with Clive Lloyd, Kali, Khani etc after and the great Lance Gibbs who is related to Clive . Holder and Roberts steaming in . Big Joel Garner and Holding shortly after .Great pity how they’ve fallen .

[forzagranata]

It is a very sad state of affairs. Basically modern cricket has exacerbated the existing problems in West Indies cricket. The lack of resources means that players head off to play in all manner of T20 leagues around the world. In the past there was a strong domestic competition (matches between Jamaica and Barbados for example were almost international level) but the better players aren't around most of the time.

Having said that - the 'basketball is replacing cricket' explanation is a weird myth. KIds play cricket or football in the Caribbean.

[arise_sir_charge]

Forza, I was going to say is the Baketball thing really as prominent as is often said? I’ve heard it mentioned for years as a reason why cricket has declined so rapidly in the West Indies.

This is a genuine question as I’ve never been to the Carribean so can’t comment myself but I’d be interested to know how many kids from the Islands progress to become NBA stars or even in the lower levels of basketball etc.

[forzagranata]

Forza, I was going to say is the Baketball thing really as prominent as is often said? I’ve heard it mentioned for years as a reason why cricket has declined so rapidly in the West Indies.

This is a genuine question as I’ve never been to the Carribean so can’t comment myself but I’d be interested to know how many kids from the Islands progress to become NBA stars or even in the lower levels of basketball etc.

Very few.

Cricket is still widely played in schools, the clubs still exist and there are youth cricket programmes. I guess the most famous NBA player from the Caribbean was Tim Duncan who was from the US Virgin Islands. It's a non-issue really.

If there is competition with cricket - it comes from football.

[TheFamilyCat]

Seeing King Viv at Seedhill was unforgettable. Pitched against rising Aussie star Steve Waugh too.

[Colburn_Claret]

My dad used to tell me of Richards flying in by helicopter, to play for Rishton. With a huge crowd there to see the master at work. He says he was lbw second ball, but the umpire didn't dare give him out because the crowd would have gone mad.
Anybody there that day?

[HuncoatClaret]

Brian Lara
Curtley Ambrose
Courtney Walsh
Shivnarine Chanderpaul
Jimmy Adams
Carl Hooper
Sherwin Campbell
Mervyn Dillon

Some of their 90’s team were fantastic too

Sherwin Campbell wasn't even a good pro for Accy.

[Nonayforever]

If there is competition with cricket - it comes from football.

What about bobsleigh ?

[beeholeclaret]

My dad used to tell me of Richards flying in by helicopter, to play for Rishton. With a huge crowd there to see the master at work. He says he was lbw second ball, but the umpire didn't dare give him out because the crowd would have gone mad.
Anybody there that day?

I was there that day.

I have a few photos somewhere.

[ClaretTony]

My dad used to tell me of Richards flying in by helicopter, to play for Rishton. With a huge crowd there to see the master at work. He says he was lbw second ball, but the umpire didn't dare give him out because the crowd would have gone mad.
Anybody there that day?

He was late arriving so they got him there by helicopter. He’d missed the first game of the season and they didn’t want him missing the next one. A friend of mine was one of the umpires that day and I can assure you there was no second ball lbw or anything like that. Richards got a good score that day, in the 80s I think.

[Bordeauxclaret]

There was indeed a very big shout for LB in his first over.

https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story ... mer-of-viv

[Longsidelenny1882]

Great post upthecolne

[timshorts]

Robin smith trying to resist the powerful West indies attack while all others were falling around him is one of my earliest proper cricket memories.
I always preferred the series with them over the repetitive and overly long ashes series.

That said, I can't see how their decline matches man u getting relegated to div 2. One has been sad. The other was ******* funny.

[Quickenthetempo]

I used to love watching the West Indies sides of the 80s/90s. They romanticised cricket if you will. Great players. Always smiling.
'Hit it on the up maaaan'

Fast bowler after fast bowler.

Gus Logie, the best short leg of all time.

Brian Lara seemingly taking on the world on his own.

[fatboy47]

And all but one of them was a Lancashire League pro

Hunte - Enfield
Nurse - Ramsbottom
Butcher - Bacup & Lowerhouse
Hall - Accrington
Griffith - Burnley
Gibbs - Burnley

And 2 of them turned out in the Bacup and District Sunday School League!

[TheFamilyCat]

Robin smith trying to resist the powerful West indies attack while all others were falling around him is one of my earliest proper cricket memories.
I always preferred the series with them over the repetitive and overly long ashes series.

That said, I can't see how their decline matches man u getting relegated to div 2. One has been sad. The other was ******* funny.

Robin Smith was class against the quicks.

Allan Lamb use to take on the Windies too.

[fatboy47]

And all but one of them was a Lancashire League pro

Hunte - Enfield
Nurse - Ramsbottom
Butcher - Bacup & Lowerhouse
Hall - Accrington
Griffith - Burnley
Gibbs - Burnley

I'm pretty sure Sobers played a couple of times in Lancashire League... I'd imagine as a guest pro. Possibly for Rishton, and I think, Enfield or Church.

[ClaretTony]

I'm pretty sure Sobers played a couple of times in Lancashire League... I'd imagine as a guest pro. Possibly for Rishton, and I think, Enfield or Church.

He played for Tod against Bacup in the Worsley Cup in 1965 against Eli. Also played one league game for each of Church and Colne. Didn’t do much with the bat but took 16 wickets in those three games.

[alf_resco]

I'm pretty sure Sobers played a couple of times in Lancashire League... I'd imagine as a guest pro. Possibly for Rishton, and I think, Enfield or Church.

A G.Sobers did once turn out at Dill Hall Lane (Enfield) for a representative match against a Lancs League XI - but it was Gerry Sobers, Garfield's younger brother. (He played in the Staffordshire league.)
I was there that day as an 11 yr old cricket fanatic and his signature is in my autograph book, along with (amongst others) Conrad Hunte, Wes Hall, Charlie Griffith, Bobby Simpson, Eddie Barlow, Basil Butcher, Seymour Nurse .........it' s a long list.
Must be worth a bob or two.

[Clarets4me]

West Indies skittled out by Scotland for 181 in 43.5 overs this morning ..... as I write Scotland are 53/1 off 13 overs, needing another 129 off 37 overs !

Unless I'm much mistaken, a defeat means West Indies will not be at the next World Cup .....

[sjb]

He was late arriving so they got him there by helicopter. He’d missed the first game of the season and they didn’t want him missing the next one. A friend of mine was one of the umpires that day and I can assure you there was no second ball lbw or anything like that. Richards got a good score that day, in the 80s I think.

The Sunday before the Orient game.

[Clarets4me]

121/1 ... needing 61 off 22.2 overs with 9 wickets left ..

[sjb]

McMullen out but should be a cakewalk for Scotland from here. 57 wanted off 20.4 with 8 in the tent.

[theduke]

Robin Smith was class against the quicks.

Allan Lamb use to take on the Windies too.

Always remember his perfect front foot defensive shot to Ambrose when he bowled us out for 46..

the only problem was it was about 5 secs too late and his leg stump hard cartwheeled half way down to the boundary

[Clarets4me]

Scotland now need 19 off 9.5 overs with 7 wickets intact .... this will need a classic " Devon Loch " from Scotland to lose it from here !!