Trafford

[arise_sir_charge]

Horrific goalkeeping, behave.

[taio]

Never seen horrific.

[CoolClaret]

Thankyou Mr Mercer

Any need? Do you want to actually add something tangible or just be a cock?

[Newcastleclaret93]

You’d have crucified Muric if he did that.

It was horrific goalkeeping - not only did he dither instead of committing early to come for the ball OR stay on his line - after he dithered (and allowed Watkins to take a 10 yard touch in the box) he also went down immediately and made it easy for Watkins to pass across goal.

Basically did everything wrong

I really don’t agree, incredibly unlucky that Watkins made such a bad touch. If he had gone early and he made a good touch Watkins would have slided it past him.

Very unfortunate but completely out of his control.

[CoolClaret]

I really don’t agree, incredibly unlucky that Watkins made such a bad touch. If he had gone early and he made a good touch Watkins would have slided it past him.

Very unfortunate but completely out of his control.

He could have easily gotten to that if he went first time

[gandhisflipflop]

We can talk about individual errors for certain goals and point the blame all day long but the bottom line is that we as a team was nowhere near the level required today for this level. I don’t expect us to turn up and roll teams like villa over as they are clearly a very good side but let’s not kid ourselves, that could and should have been 4 or 5 today and we would have had no complaints.


We need to improve, and fast.

[ksrclaret]

I think the first goal is definitely at least half on Trafford. I think an experienced goalkeeper (not necessarily Muric by the way) judges that much better and as a result we're in a different game instead of 1 down after 8 minutes and you could see some of the confidence of our very young team draining already.

I'd stick with Trafford though because even in two very difficult games he's shown he's a good shot-stopper, he's good with his feet, and has a strong mentality (he recovered well from his initial mistake). It's not his fault he's been bought instead of an experienced head so we'll have to back him now.

[nyclaret]

I think Muric needs to come back in the team. He has that ability to scan the play in front of him and initiate/unlock it through a killer pass. I've not seen that yet from Trafford (I know it's only been 2 games).

[NewClaret]

Ridiculous thread.

I don’t think he’s at fault for the first goal, Watkins horrendous first touch ended up being the perfect touch and gave Trafford a catch 22 scenario, come out and risk not getting there (which is what happened) or don’t come out and risk Watkins just smashing it in the corner.

For me he made the right call and made it as difficult as he could for Watkins.

This is spot on.

He was rightly retreating initially. Think it then came off Watkins’ knee and he over hit it, then he came out but missed it by inches. Could easily have been a good save.

[BurnleyFC]

This is spot on.

He was rightly retreating initially. Think it then came off Watkins’ knee and he over hit it, then he came out but missed it by inches. Could easily have been a good save.

It could’ve been, but it wasn’t. And inches away might as well be metres away as far as a goalkeeper is concerned.

He has to take some of the blame for the first, unfortunately.

[eastcoastclaret]

Trafford is too inexperienced to be dropped into this side. We know Kompany has a reputation of not being afraid to play young players, but with a makeshift defence, we need someone who gives confidence to those in front of him. For me Trafford at the moment, is the wrong choice.

[Newcastleclaret93]

He could have easily gotten to that if he went first time

That’s the point though, if he went first time and Watkins had a good touch he would have scored.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think Muric needs to come back in the team. He has that ability to scan the play in front of him and initiate/unlock it through a killer pass. I've not seen that yet from Trafford (I know it's only been 2 games).

You have to remember you’re basing that opinion on Muric doing that against some real dross.

This is a completely different game at this level. Tactically and athletically they are miles better, the keepers don’t get the same time

[ksrclaret]

Trafford is too inexperienced to be dropped into this side. We know Kompany has a reputation of not being afraid to play young players, but with a makeshift defence, we need someone who gives confidence to those in front of him. For me Trafford at the moment, is the wrong choice.

I just think everyone at the club have been a little too carried away with our exploits last season and as a result there has been an under-estimation of the league, the difficulty of each and every game at this level, and how the balance of the team needs to be as a result.

[Ric_C]

Just wondering what this ‘blatantly not good enough’ opinion is based on? Against City he had no chance with the goals, made a few smart saves and passing was pretty good. Against Villa he did all the goalkeeping pretty well, one outstanding save against Watkins, some decent claims on crosses… the words ‘blatantly not good enough’ are quite strong and would suggest he’s made some howlers?

Decision making questionable.
Doesn't seem to have a presence
Gets bullied at corners

Like I say, I don't think he won't ever be good enough, but he isn't at the moment, he needs to learn, but we can't afford him to be learning on the job atm.

[eastcoastclaret]

You have to remember you’re basing that opinion on Muric doing that against some real dross.

This is a completely different game at this level. Tactically and athletically they are miles better, the keepers don’t get the same time

I think people are forgetting that before Muric signed for us, he had a very successful season in the Turkish super lig.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think people are forgetting that before Muric signed for us, he had a very successful season in the Turkish super lig.

But again that league is absymal

[StayingDown4Ever]

I don’t know how people can defend him for that first goal.

Horrendous decision making.

[Carlos the Great]

Maybe Trafford isn’t to blame for us losing the game .. but imagine if he dithers like that in injury time against Luton when it’s 0.0 ? .. might be more than a few moans then

[taio]

Watkins' very heavy first touch was fortunate for him and understandably caught Trafford out. Minor error but with mitigating circumstances.

[eastcoastclaret]

But again that league is absymal

And league 1 isn't?

Muric is more experienced, has 30+ games for Kosovo and was a very important part of last season's team. I'm not saying Trafford won't improve, I'm sure he will, but the same could be said for Muric.

With an inexperienced defence, to then put an inexperienced keeper in an well is asking for trouble.

[NewClaret]

It could’ve been, but it wasn’t. And inches away might as well be metres away as far as a goalkeeper is concerned.

He has to take some of the blame for the first, unfortunately.

He does have to take some of it but we also easily conceded possession up field and the midfield/defence was cut through too easily. Then we didn’t deal with Watkins’ cross. I’d put all three of those errors ahead of any blame at Trafford’s hands.

I’d still rather we played Muric though.

[dougcollins]

If the RB had actually been playing at RB the first goal wouldn't have happened.

[Newcastleclaret93]

And league 1 isn't?

Muric is more experienced, has 30+ games for Kosovo and was a very important part of last season's team. I'm not saying Trafford won't improve, I'm sure he will, but the same could be said for Muric.

With an inexperienced defence, to then put an inexperienced keeper in an well is asking for trouble.

Trafford isn’t playing in league 1 now though. He’s playing in the premier league against the best players in the world.

People are comparing what Muric has done in worst leagues to what Trafford is doing now

[eastcoastclaret]

Trafford isn’t playing in league 1 now though. He’s playing in the premier league against the best players in the world.

People are comparing what Muric has done in worst leagues to what Trafford is doing now

I think what people are suggesting is that Muric has played at a higher level than Trafford. Had a better pre season than Trafford and knows our system and players better than Trafford.

It baffles many of us why he is playing ahead of Muric, especially when we have an inexperienced defence which needs someone confident to support and organise them.

As I've pointed out, both players will no doubt improve with games but for me at this moment in time Muric should have been in the team.

[Hipper]

I'm not a big fan of Trafford although of course I want him to succeed. Based on what I've seen on the England U-21 final, our YouTube friendlies, and the Man City game (where he was solid but no more - in fact a steady Prem League debut in the circumstances) I've seen nothing to say he is anything special or better then Muric. However I think that those that are critical of the first, and possibly the third, goals yesterday are being unfair. These are my views with the benefit of TV replays

For the first goal the biggest danger for Trafford was that Watkins would attempt a shot on goal and it was his job to prevent the goal as best he could. First he had to back pedal, and then to react to Watkins fumble by coming out towards the ball to prevent a goal. He's accused of being too slow in his reaction to that fumble. I don't think he was. He reacted pretty quickly. Another criticism might be that by coming out to Watkins he prevented Al-Dakhil from getting in a block but I don't think A-D was near enough to interfere. Trafford's movement was the best any goalkeeper could do in the circumstance.

Then there's the actual attempt to prevent a goal. Again, Trafford rightly assumed that the worst outcome was Watkins scoring. He also realised that he couldn't catch the ball, all he could do was block or parry the shot, or, put pressure on Watkins so he might miss. He did the latter and he did it well enough to stop the goal as all Watkins managed to do was push the ball wide. In my view Watkins was trying to score. I see no evidence that Watkins was aware that Cash was coming in on the left.

In other words, Trafford did all he could to prevent Watkins scoring and he succeeded in that. His defenders should have dealt with Cash.

For the third goal although Watkins was in an offside position, and looked like he was trying to jump over the ball, I don't think it affected Trafford's attempt to save Diaby's shot, which was excellently placed. I still think though that Watkins was interfering with play, but there you go. I can't see any fault with Trafford's attempt to save this goal.

I'm not convinced Trafford is better the Muric but he's not at fault for any of yesterday's goals.

[jedi_master]

Trafford is the least of this teams problems IMO - though I agree with the general opinion of “why drop Muric”.

[Steve1956]

You’d have crucified Muric if he did that.

It was horrific goalkeeping - not only did he dither instead of committing early to come for the ball OR stay on his line - after he dithered (and allowed Watkins to take a 10 yard touch in the box) he also went down immediately and made it easy for Watkins to pass across goal.

Basically did everything wrong

I hope Kompany picks Trafford for every single league game...just to plss you off.

[CoolClaret]

I hope Kompany picks Trafford for every single league game...just to plss you off.

Bizarre comment

[Steve1956]

Bizarre comment

People like you target players and never let up you really plss me off,back the players or keep your mouth shut.

[CoolClaret]

People like you target players and never let up you really plss me off,back the players or keep your mouth shut.

Never once got on the players backs at the game, actively support at all times.

Or else what mate? What are you gonna do? Absolutely nothing

[Steve1956]

Or else what mate? What are you gonna do? Absolutely nothing

are you 14 ?

[Carwin261]

I know admin get block racist,sexist ,and other nasty posts but how about blocking the negative posts after 2 defeats against the Prem leagues in form teams for 2023,constructive. comments the more the merrier ,but there are some real negative ninnies on the MB

[boatshed bill]

Isn't he what you might call learning on the job?
Very young 'keeper with no experience above L1, sure to make what may be seen as mistakes.
Probably best if some of the expert analysts (who have never played in goal if they've played at all) leave the scrutiny out for a while.

[burnleymik]

A little bit of revisionism here. Trafford got caught in two minds, which is a big no no as a keeper. Just inexperience and confidence.

He will get there for sure, the question is whether we will have the luxury of giving him that time.

[Robbie_painter]

Bit extreme blaming him solely for any of the goals conceded so far in my opinion .

[boatshed bill]

A little bit of revisionism here. Trafford got caught in two minds, which is a big no no as a keeper. Just inexperience and confidence.

He will get there for sure, the question is whether we will have the luxury of giving him that time.

But all 3 goals are clearly gifts due to poor marking and playing a really poor defensive line.
How often have we seen a right back/ wing back get 2 goalscoring opportunities like Cash got?

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Not sure what Muric did wrong really and £1m more could have bought Maatsen earlier in the summer, like a kid in a candy shop this signing, bit of a face palm at the moment or he turns out to be a world beater, not a good start, 2 starts 6 goals conceeded.

Give him 2 more games and if its another 3-4 goals conceeded get Muric back in the nets!

[BleedingClaret]

2 obvious faults that should be quite easy to rectify ( and this is besides the punching not catching thing)

1.Makes himself small, get him to watch footage of Peter Schmeichel

2. Goes to ground too early

He’d have cut out Watkins cross if he’d stood up and done a Schmeichel star - Heaton mimicked that at times

He was already on the floor when Diaby pea rolled his goal in slow motion
Great accuracy but a 6ft 5” keeper on his feet and shifting them quickly would have a do at that

[claretspice]

I think if Trafford's starting position was as high as it should have been given how high our defensive mind was, he'd have kicked the through ball into the stand comfortably. And of course he should have fielded the dodgy touch from Watkins - I agree that he didn't impose himself or make his shape as big as possible.

However, there's a lot that is worrying about that goal. Al Dakhil makes a poor decision not to initially track Watkins, whilst Delcroix will know he has to do better to prevent Cash getting to the cross - he is a yard ahead of him as play enters our area. But the real problem is systemic - the defensive line is a mess, particularly when combined with Trafford's starting position - Al Dakhil steps up and is 2 yards in front of O'Shea and Delcroix. Equally, the minute the ball gets to McGinn, weve managed to allow ourselves to get 3v3 on half way against a team with pace to burn. There is a huge gap in front if the back three and yet we aren't in a position to press McGinn. Roberts' function is to step in and stop the counter but hes just not in the game.

The third goal, whilst a mistake from Al-Dakhil was similar, and these were not isolated examples by any stretch - in fact it happened alarmingly regularly. In each case the focus on the mistake makes it easy to overlook the real point, which is that if you allow yourself to be put in that position enough times, eventually you will make a slight mistake and opponents of this calibre will capitalise. The trick is to ensure the set up ensures enough resilience that you arent a counter attack goal waiting to happen.

[boatshed bill]

2 obvious faults that should be quite easy to rectify ( and this is besides the punching not catching thing)



He was already on the floor when Diaby pea rolled his goal in slow motion
Great accuracy but a 6ft 5” keeper on his feet and shifting them quickly would have a do at that

Probably unsighted by the offside forward.
Time all the rules concerning offside were reverted to the original in my opinion.

[Spijed]

I think if Trafford's starting position was as high as it should have been given how high our defensive mind was, he'd have kicked the through ball into the stand comfortably. And of course he should have fielded the dodgy touch from Watkins - I agree that he didn't impose himself or make his shape as big as possible.

However, there's a lot that is worrying about that goal. Al Dakhil makes a poor decision not to initially track Watkins, whilst Delcroix will know he has to do better to prevent Cash getting to the cross - he is a yard ahead of him as play enters our area. But the real problem is systemic - the defensive line is a mess, particularly when combined with Trafford's starting position - Al Dakhil steps up and is 2 yards in front of O'Shea and Delcroix. Equally, the minute the ball gets to McGinn, weve managed to allow ourselves to get 3v3 on half way against a team with pace to burn. There is a huge gap in front if the back three and yet we aren't in a position to press McGinn. Roberts' function is to step in and stop the counter but hes just not in the game.

The third goal, whilst a mistake from Al-Dakhil was similar, and these were not isolated examples by any stretch - in fact it happened alarmingly regularly. In each case the focus on the mistake makes it easy to overlook the real point, which is that if you allow yourself to be put in that position enough times, eventually you will make a slight mistake and opponents of this calibre will capitalise. The trick is to ensure the set up ensures enough resilience that you arent a counter attack goal waiting to happen.

And where we made plenty of defensive mistakes last season, but got away with them, we'll concede every time we do the same this time. The question is, is VK to blame for the way we set up for the first Villa goal with the high line, or is it just down to the inexperience of the defence?

[boatshed bill]

And where we made plenty of defensive mistakes last season, but got away with them, we'll concede every time we do the same this time. The question is, is VK to blame for the way we set up for the first Villa goal with the high line, or is it just down to the inexperience of the defence?

Inexperience both at playing and management.
Did we have 2 players out there who had previously played in the PL?

[claretspice]

Both. Al Dakhil will become a top defender, but he was at fault for all 3 goals yesterday by bad decision making and not spotting the danger quick enough. But I think his mitigation is that the system forced him into difficult decisions - second goal he steps up to engage Cash in an attacking midfield role because neither Cullen nor Berge were screening, probably follows him too long and then reacts slower than Cash to the next phase. Same to an extent for the third goal in particular. The first goal just highlights that the back 3 on the counter attack were living on the edge repeatedly. That set up has to he improved.

[BleedingClaret]

Probably unsighted by the offside forward.
Time all the rules concerning offside were reverted to the original in my opinion.

I’ll admit, in real time I thought why hasn’t he moved his feet, watching it back I did see that as a factor, yes

I still think the major points about him going to ground too soon looking small and punching rather than catching make him look more like a keeper Danny Wards size than a 6ft 5” young lad who should have Zebeddee legs still apply

[boatshed bill]

Both. Al Dakhil will become a top defender, but he was at fault for all 3 goals yesterday by bad decision making and not spotting the danger quick enough. But I think his mitigation is that the system forced him into difficult decisions - second goal he steps up to engage Cash in an attacking midfield role because neither Cullen nor Berge were screening, probably follows him too long and then reacts slower than Cash to the next phase. Same to an extent for the third goal in particular. The first goal just highlights that the back 3 on the counter attack were living on the edge repeatedly. That set up has to he improved.

I agree about the set-up. Not sure I'd blame Al Dakhil for not tracking Cash into the box though.

[claretspice]

I agree about the set-up. Not sure I'd blame Al Dakhil for not tracking Cash into the box though.

I'm not, especially. Cash just reacts quicker. The point is that the absence of a designated screen in front of Al Dakhil creates the environment for that to become fatal.

[dougcollins]

Roberts is getting off very lightly here.

[Spijed]

Both. Al Dakhil will become a top defender, but he was at fault for all 3 goals yesterday by bad decision making and not spotting the danger quick enough. But I think his mitigation is that the system forced him into difficult decisions - second goal he steps up to engage Cash in an attacking midfield role because neither Cullen nor Berge were screening, probably follows him too long and then reacts slower than Cash to the next phase. Same to an extent for the third goal in particular. The first goal just highlights that the back 3 on the counter attack were living on the edge repeatedly. That set up has to he improved.

As a world class defender and organiser whilst playing I'd have expected VK to be a little more aware of the dangers of such a high line against a side like Villa with such an inexperienced back line.

[BleedingClaret]

Thing is we’re not football managers, although we all think we know best at times.
I can say though before todays game everyone I talked to or overheard was saying words like weird or strange and why is Delcroix thrown in in what looks like a back four.
Even Why is Benson starting when he’s a major weapon after the hour mark when teams tire.
I personally said
That looks like a flat back four
and said it looks like a 4114
When we kicked off and I realised that Koleosho and Benson were under instructions stay up and hug the touchline and realised that Cullen was in front of the back 4 & Berge behind the front four, I just thought that can’t be enough defensively against this lot and the first attack before the goal was, oh no, then 1.0 knew it, we haven’t changed it 2,0 what the f are we doing