MMXX1

[pureclaret]

Ok so just about to watch ''Christmas at Chatsworth House'' got mince pie and cheese and a small glass of port before going to a Christmas Carol service at St Peter and saint Pauls church for a remember loved ones who have passed at christmas , (personally remember them all year but its still nice to do)

So Back to MMXX1 , why when most of us do not write roman numerals is it on TV programs to say when filmed instead of putting 2021, I had to rethink watching as seen before but only after having to rack my brain for the year . the mince pie and port were good.

I do see that the question im asking is reasonable but then remembering the birth of someone who was born way back seems a bit strange.

I then looked it up to see when Jesus was bornand felt like id steped into an algebra lesson of DC BC AD and the AUC calender. must call at co-op to pick up more port after service

MMXX111

[wilks_bfc]

Studios originally used them so it’s not as obvious how old what you are watching is.

Guess it’s just one of those things that’s just stuck despite it being pretty pointless

[Rowls]

Excellent question!

There's no earthly reason for adopting Roman numerals is there? The decimal "Arabic" number system is far more logical. The major disadvantage of Roman numerals is that there isn't a symbol for each integer and it doesn't have a consistent place value system set up.

When we write eleven in Arabic numerals we write 11. There is one ten plus one unit. It's easy to distinguish that this is a larger number than nine because that is made up of a single digit 9 representing 9 units.

Compare that to the Roman system whereby eleven is written XI and nine is written IX. The rule here is that when the I is before the X then it is subtracted from the X but when it is written after the X the two are added together. There's a certain logic to that but things quickly start to fall apart when it comes to writing equations and large numbers.

Where else do we see Roman numerals? Normally on clock faces and building edifices - things that people like to look fancy and expensive. I think that's where the answer to the OP's question lies.

People use Roman numerals to look fancy and try and add prestige.

PS: It's a letter I, not the number 1 on Roman numerals so it ought to be written "MMXXI".

[dsr]

Julius Caesar went into a bar and stuck up two fingers at the barman. So the barman gave him five pints.

[evensteadiereddie]

And Brutus threw up after wolfing down dodgy kebabs...
"Et two, Brute?"

[pureclaret]

Thanks for that Rowls, I can see it got your brain cells in gear, it seems the BBC use it on lots of there programes perhaps so they can justify the fancy licence fee

[ClaretPete001]

The Spanish Muslims in Andalucia had a golden age of philosophy and intellectual endeavour.

Ibn Rushd in particular was famous for his treatise - The Incoherence of the Incoherence, which critiqued Al Ghazali's seminal work The Incoherence of the Philosophers and defended Aristolean philosophy in Islam.

Of course, Ibn Rushd was banished to a Jewish village, his work banned and his books burned because lets be honest how else do you deal with genius?

The Greeks who wrote the bible like St Paul used a lot of Aristotle and Plato in their writings or at least it is claimed they did. The three forms of God and Plato's theory of Forms along with Aristotle's Transubstantiation (water into wine) seem to suggest they did.

And here endeth the lesson; all I need now is one of the emoji kidz to call me a Kant and the philosophy lesson is complete.

[Westleigh]

Am I being thick but isn’t Et tu Brute written the same in French “And You Brutus “ as in Latin ? I only did Latin for II years.thats 2 yrs not 11 .

[Rowls]

Am I being thick but isn’t Et tu Brute written the same in French “And You Brutus “ as in Latin ? I only did Latin for II years.thats 2 yrs not 11 .

French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and Romanian are all known as "Romance" languages.

Not because these people are especially amorous or good lovers (insert your own qualifier / joke here) but because these languages evolved from the language that the Romans spoke. Romans ---> Romance. Romans, of course, spoke Latin.

French is a language that evolved directly from Latin so that's why "Et tu Brute" is the same in Latin and French.

[Bosscat]

French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and Romanian are all known as "Romance" languages.

Not because these people are especially amorous or good lovers (insert your own qualifier / joke here) but because these languages evolved from the language that the Romans spoke. Romans ---> Romance. Romans, of course, spoke Latin.

French is a language that evolved directly from Latin so that's why "Et tu Brute" is the same in Latin and French.

There is also "Romansh" spoken in the Grison canton in Switzerland and the Romanians speak a form of "Romansh language" all are taken from Roman Latin

[Westleigh]

French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and Romanian are all known as "Romance" languages.

Not because these people are especially amorous or good lovers (insert your own qualifier / joke here) but because these languages evolved from the language that the Romans spoke. Romans ---> Romance. Romans, of course, spoke Latin.

French is a language that evolved directly from Latin so that's why "Et tu Brute" is the same in Latin and French.

The things you didn’t know you didn’t know.

[Greenmile]

Excellent question!

There's no earthly reason for adopting Roman numerals is there? The decimal "Arabic" number system is far more logical. The major disadvantage of Roman numerals is that there isn't a symbol for each integer and it doesn't have a consistent place value system set up.

When we write eleven in Arabic numerals we write 11. There is one ten plus one unit. It's easy to distinguish that this is a larger number than nine because that is made up of a single digit 9 representing 9 units....

The main problem with Roman numerals is the lack of a zero. This is what essentially leads to the issues Rowls mentions above.

[Greenmile]

Where else do we see Roman numerals? Normally on clock faces and building edifices - things that people like to look fancy and expensive.

When you consider how much “better” the Arabic numbering system is, it’s quite surprising how much Roman numerals have endured. In addition to clock faces and old buildings, we still sometimes see them in film / game sequels, names of monarchs, book chapters, US sporting events like the Super Bowl or Wrestlemania, and of course, football, where (some) people still talk about the first / second XI.

[jdrobbo]

Ok so just about to watch ''Christmas at Chatsworth House'' got mince pie and cheese and a small glass of port before going to a Christmas Carol service at St Peter and saint Pauls church for a remember loved ones who have passed at christmas , (personally remember them all year but its still nice to do)

So Back to MMXX1 , why when most of us do not write roman numerals is it on TV programs to say when filmed instead of putting 2021, I had to rethink watching as seen before but only after having to rack my brain for the year . the mince pie and port were good.

I do see that the question im asking is reasonable but then remembering the birth of someone who was born way back seems a bit strange.

I then looked it up to see when Jesus was bornand felt like id steped into an algebra lesson of DC BC AD and the AUC calender. must call at co-op to pick up more port after service

MMXX111

I find Roman numeral’s fascinating…what I don’t get, is why the number four on a standard clock display, is shown as IIII and not IV. Mind blown!?

Yes, I even feel that warranted the interrobang.

[Rowls]

When you consider how much “better” the Arabic numbering system is, it’s quite surprising how much Roman numerals have endured. In addition to clock faces and old buildings, we still sometimes see them in film / game sequels, names of monarchs, book chapters, US sporting events like the Super Bowl or Wrestlemania, and of course, football, where (some) people still talk about the first / second XI.

Yes, it's the kind of thing that would make for a very interesting thesis: Where and why have Roman numerals persisted?

Mundanely, I'm more likely to type out "first XI" if I'm using my mobile because I won't have to switch from the alphabet keypad to the numeral keypad.

[Whitgord]

I had never noticed that on a clock jdrobbo!

[Bosscat]

I find Roman numeral’s fascinating…what I don’t get, is why the number four on a standard clock display, is shown as IIII and no IV. Mind blown!?

Yes, I even feel that warranted the interrobang.

Have just googled it John as I thought what a great question.


"IIII Was the Easiest Way to Read 4 for the Non-Educated

So it is possible that they could understand the literal number four because of the four lines rather than the IV. The decision to use the individual marks may have been out of deference to the non-educated farmer and worker population"

[Rowls]

The Scene: Medieval peasants are toiling in the field.

Peasant 1: What time is it?
Peasant 2: [Looking at church tower] I don't know. It's gone past four.

[Greenmile]

I find Roman numeral’s fascinating…what I don’t get, is why the number four on a standard clock display, is shown as IIII and no IV. Mind blown!?

Yes, I even feel that warranted the interrobang.

There’s a few decent theories here :-

https://newgateworld.com/blogs/style/sh ... clock-dial

I’ll quote a couple of the more interesting ones, for those who don’t like links (but do like facts / theories about Roman numerals)

“When Roman numerals were in use by the Roman Empire, the name of the Romans' supreme deity, Jupiter, was spelled as IVPPITER in Latin. There was a feeling that using the start of Jupiter’s name on a clock dial, and it being upside down where it fell, would be disrespectful to the deity, so IIII was introduced instead.”

“Traditionally using IIII may have made work a little easier for clock makers. If you're making a clock where the numerals are cut from metal and affixed to the face, using IIII means you'll need twenty I's, four V's, and four X's. That's one mould of "XVIIIII" which you can cast four times and have the right number of digits for your dial. If you use IV, the totals are four, seventeen, and five, which doesn't divide up so neatly, and therefore requires several moulds in different configurations.”

They also point out that “London’s iconic Big Ben clock tower” (I know, pedants) uses IV rather than IIII.

[distortiondave]

There'd be far fewer cryptic crossword clues without roman numerals.

[Westleigh]

If your booking a holiday in Roman Times and you’ve to put down how many adults and children how do you put down 0 children?

[dsr]

There’s a few decent theories here :-

https://newgateworld.com/blogs/style/sh ... clock-dial

I’ll quote a couple of the more interesting ones, for those who don’t like links (but do like facts / theories about Roman numerals)

“When Roman numerals were in use by the Roman Empire, the name of the Romans' supreme deity, Jupiter, was spelled as IVPPITER in Latin. There was a feeling that using the start of Jupiter’s name on a clock dial, and it being upside down where it fell, would be disrespectful to the deity, so IIII was introduced instead.”

They didn't have clockwork in Roman times, so surely they wouldn't have a circular clock face? And if they did, the first hour started at dawn - noon was not 12 o'clock - so 4 would have been where 10 is now, roughly.

[Westleigh]

They didn't have clockwork in Roman times, so surely they wouldn't have a circular clock face? And if they did, the first hour started at dawn - noon was not 12 o'clock - so 4 would have been where 10 is now, roughly.

Would they have used sundials or some sort of water based timepiece?

[dsr]

The Spanish Muslims in Andalucia had a golden age of philosophy and intellectual endeavour.

Ibn Rushd in particular was famous for his treatise - The Incoherence of the Incoherence, which critiqued Al Ghazali's seminal work The Incoherence of the Philosophers and defended Aristolean philosophy in Islam.

Of course, Ibn Rushd was banished to a Jewish village, his work banned and his books burned because lets be honest how else do you deal with genius?

The Greeks who wrote the bible like St Paul used a lot of Aristotle and Plato in their writings or at least it is claimed they did. The three forms of God and Plato's theory of Forms along with Aristotle's Transubstantiation (water into wine) seem to suggest they did.

And here endeth the lesson; all I need now is one of the emoji kidz to call me a Kant and the philosophy lesson is complete.

I think Luke is the only Greek who wrote the Bible. Paul was Jewish, so were Matthew and John and James, Mark is uncertain. The John who wrote Revelation may have been Greek.

[dsr]

Would they have used sundials or some sort of water based timepiece?

Good point - yes, they would.

Mind you, a sundial surely wouldn't have numbers marked in a circle - only a semi-circle. And none of them would be upside down, whether the sundial is vertical or horizontal!

[dougcollins]

If your booking a holiday in Roman Times and you’ve to put down how many adults and children how do you put down 0 children?

II?

[ClaretPete001]

I think Luke is the only Greek who wrote the Bible. Paul was Jewish, so were Matthew and John and James, Mark is uncertain. The John who wrote Revelation may have been Greek.

Israel and Judah were provinces of the Eastern Roman empire so all Jews in Jerusalem would be aware of Greek influences.

Saul of Tarsus was a Hellenistic Jew - born in modern Turkey, which was also a Roman province at the time. One of the advantages Christianity had was that Paul was a Roman citizen, or at least Luke claimed he was, and was able to preach to Romans. The Roman name - Paulos was his second name (allegedly) - two names being common amongst Jews in the Roman Empire.

My own name is biblical and Greek....

The authors of the synoptic gospels are unknown but were likely written later from various perspectives from a single source. Textual analysis tends to date these writing based upon the fall of Jerusalem and other historical events, which are mentioned in the text but could not have been known by someone writing in the first half of the 1st century.

Depending on your faith perspective the Bible is the word of God written by the disciples of Jesus or a book largely written by two Hellenistic Jews who never met Jesus - one born in Turkey and the other Syria. One of whom spent most of Jesus' lifetime crucifying early Christians in Jerusalem before his conversion on the road to Damascus.

Saying that - there are various shades of faith, and it's perfectly possible to square all the various circles and still believe.

And on that note, I'm conscious I'm pushing the boundaries of the forum.

[Greenmile]

Good point - yes, they would.

Mind you, a sundial surely wouldn't have numbers marked in a circle - only a semi-circle. And none of them would be upside down, whether the sundial is vertical or horizontal!

Surely that depends what angle you are looking at the sundial from?

(depending on your definition of “upside-down”, I suppose. ie - if you mean relative to the viewer rather than relative to the Earth’s gravitational pull)

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Apparently typesetters have been using Lorem Ipsum as dummy text since the 1500s. Every time I open my writing software, there it is still.

[dougcollins]

If your booking a holiday in Roman Times and you’ve to put down how many adults and children how do you put down 0 children?

Well, if 'IV' is 4 (one before five), 'II' is zero (one before one).

Case solved.

[Volvoclaret]

What have Roman numerals ever done for us?

[Bosscat]

What have Roman numerals ever done for us?

usque ad clarets