Is this true?

[yTib]

i genuinely lost a stone and a half on the atkins.

then i went to uni and put it back on with wine and curries and kebabs and beer and wine and kebabs.

[yTib]

and curries. (bradford).

[Rowls]

Not 7 days a week no chance for some people maybe batch cooking & storing in a chest freezer, some people do double shifts 16hrs they can't even prioritize sleep.

Yes, you certainly need to plan ahead if you're doing shift work. That's why having a good family network is so vital in society.

If somebody else cooks for you while you're on your shift pattern, you can have home-cooked food without cooking yourself!

[Rowls]

We changed our diet completely after we had kids - we still have a take away now and again etc but 95% of our meals are fresh and home cooked.

The Mrs recently got a Sarah Rossi cookbook that has been brilliant and gives you shopping lists to make it easier (a weeks recipes that will reuse certain ingredient so you can easily shop them).

We didn't want the kids eating the stuff we ended up eating through our laziness so made the change and they have a great appetite and pallettes for it.

Amazes me when mates will say their kids will eat nothing but chips etc.... But then you realise that's mainly what they eat themselves. Got one mate who'll feed his kid 4/5 nugget happy meals a week because "she won't eat anything else"

We've a 2 year old daughter who's had grilled chicken and home made chips, minted lamb stew, salmon and pea orzo, tomato pasta.... And a chippy tea this week. All about variety and making the effort to try and cook something fresh and new..... Probably takes an extra 10/15 mins of actual cooking rather than throwing it in oven and watching telly for 20 mins that it would for just some chips.

I'm logging off now so that this is the final post I read tonight. It's warmed my heart.

Great stuff bfccrazy and Merry Christmas to you and your family

[Jakubclaret]

Yes, you certainly need to plan ahead if you're doing shift work. That's why having a good family network is so vital in society.

If somebody else cooks for you while you're on your shift pattern, you can have home-cooked food without cooking yourself!

That certainly is true it can make life easier with 2 people helping each other but if you are single you are by yourself. The point I'm standing by is it isn't practical or viable for some working people to be cooking meals from scratch.

[dsr]

Yes, this is the problem.

We ought to be asking "why have we allowed this to happen?" and "HOW has this happened?"

And then immediately afterwards, we ask ourselves the even better question: How do we rectify the problem?

How much of a problem is it?

I went to visit someone who has eaten healthily and looked after herself all her life. She remembered us, with a bit of prompting. She doesn't cook any more, of course. Or walk, or leave her room, or go to the toilet without help.

Do I look at her and think "I must eat healthily if I want to reach my nursing home"? Or do I take my chances and eat what I like to eat?

The reason it's been allowed to happen, incidentally, is entirely contrary to the rationale behind the thread. It is because food has become so cheap and plentiful that we can afford far more of it, and also that motor transport has become so cheap and available that we take less exercise. Obesity is a function of increased wealth, not poverty. (Absolute wealth, not relative wealth.)

[Boss Hogg]

A balanced diet is fine. It doesn’t have to be all home cooked or all easy cooking. Some fattier food is cheaper but not all. Some exercise is good but it doesn’t have to dominate everything you do. People have different lifestyles and affordability.Sometimes it’s lack of education but not always. There’s some real sanctimonious crap on here at times. Some people get obsessed with doing certain things at certain times and eating certain things. I eat what I want when I want but try and keep some balance. I exercise when I want for as long as I want without having to use running apps and wiring up to stuff. Far more relaxing way to live. I think there’s middle ground with diet and exercise.

[LoveCurryPies]

I don’t know why you keep criticising each other.

If you are over weight you are more likely to have diabetes and sadly a shorter life.

It’s not rocket science. If you eat more calories than you burn then you gain weight. I know about that.

You can change your life (and future) at any point.

[dsr]

I don’t know why you keep criticising each other.

If you are over weight you are more likely to have diabetes and sadly a shorter life.

It’s not rocket science. If you eat more calories than you burn then you gain weight. I know about that.

You can change your life (and future) at any point.

You can't guarantee to change your life. You can improve the odds, but it might not make a ha'porth of difference.

[Carlos the Great]

Fat people are lazy … lazy people eat takeaways …snakes give birth to more snakes .. need to break the cycle

[Carlos the Great]

Here is my advice … 1 day a week don’t eat for 24 hours .. water and black coffee only …treat food as fuel not because it tastes nice … eat 5 small meals a day under 400 calories .: have 1 treat day a week :.

[Inchy]

How much of a problem is it?

I went to visit someone who has eaten healthily and looked after herself all her life. She remembered us, with a bit of prompting. She doesn't cook any more, of course. Or walk, or leave her room, or go to the toilet without help.

Do I look at her and think "I must eat healthily if I want to reach my nursing home"? Or do I take my chances and eat what I like to eat?

The reason it's been allowed to happen, incidentally, is entirely contrary to the rationale behind the thread. It is because food has become so cheap and plentiful that we can afford far more of it, and also that motor transport has become so cheap and available that we take less exercise. Obesity is a function of increased wealth, not poverty. (Absolute wealth, not relative wealth.)

I’m a community nurse and the vast majority of patients I see are elderly.

One of the reasons I stay fit is because I want to be healthy in retirement. I see a lot of blokes who are in a terrible way in their 60s because of lifestyle choices throughout their lives. Unable to travel, leave the house even.

Now yes we could all get knocked down by a bus or suffer some unavoidable illness, but if you want to increase your chances of enjoying your later years you should stay fit.

[Clovius Boofus]

How much of a problem is it?

I went to visit someone who has eaten healthily and looked after herself all her life. She remembered us, with a bit of prompting. She doesn't cook any more, of course. Or walk, or leave her room, or go to the toilet without help.

Do I look at her and think "I must eat healthily if I want to reach my nursing home"? Or do I take my chances and eat what I like to eat?

Nothing to do with aiming for longevity well into old age. Eating healthily and exercise is more about avoiding the type of stuff that can crew you up when you could be enjoying an active and heathy middle-age - like heart disease, risk of stroke, type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, osteoarthritis etc.

[Clovius Boofus]

I've just seen Inchy's post. Basically what he says.

[TheFamilyCat]

I wonder how much of obesity rates have increased since the like of deliveroo appeared.

I was I a Coop recently and clocked an order ready for collection: one Rustler burger and a can of Monster

[Claret53]

There is a clear link between deprivation and obesity. It’s not the cost of fresh vegetables etc. I have followed people through the checkouts who have trolleys full of processed food, mountains of crisps etc.
Do I think that they don’t care about their children’s health? Not at all, but there seems to be a generation of folks who have never been taught how to cook by their parents, and have been bombarded by adverts by the food processing industry.
Check out the ingredients in processed foods- often horrendous levels of salt/ sugar. All fairly addictive and a vicious circle.
Cooking decent healthy food is NOT a massive burden or expense. Education and example desperately required.

[Carlos the Great]

When I was at school we used have 1 ginger kid in the class and 1 fat kid … but now it seems there is probably 15 fat kids in 1 class .. I think kids on fifa .,Xbox etc now instead of playing outside and eating takeaways everyday have turned us into a nation of porkies

[RicardoMontalban]

How much of a problem is it?

I went to visit someone who has eaten healthily and looked after herself all her life. She remembered us, with a bit of prompting. She doesn't cook any more, of course. Or walk, or leave her room, or go to the toilet without help.

Do I look at her and think "I must eat healthily if I want to reach my nursing home"? Or do I take my chances and eat what I like to eat?

The reason it's been allowed to happen, incidentally, is entirely contrary to the rationale behind the thread. It is because food has become so cheap and plentiful that we can afford far more of it, and also that motor transport has become so cheap and available that we take less exercise. Obesity is a function of increased wealth, not poverty. (Absolute wealth, not relative wealth.)

I know you have qualified that statement to highlight the nuance that we do live in a wealthy society, but the truth is communities affected by deprivation and low income will, broadly speaking, not exhibit behaviour that supports healthy living, relative to the rest of our society. This might mean drugs and alcohol, or smoking, but it also includes lack of exercise and diet with an over reliance on processed foods and junk food.

Burnley (at least parts of it) is, by comparison to the rest of Britain, deprived. And all these health and lifestyle indicators that adversely affect people’s quality of life and life expectancy are here in ample supply.

[Carlos the Great]

People are involved in different circumstances allowing free time, how can long distance HGV drivers cook meals, people snack on the go & even often skip meals, the myth of mon-fri 9-5 for some people is a laughable pipe dream, I think large doses of kenco could perhaps be on santas wish list for some people on this thread.

I used to make my own food in small weighed out tubs and take with me in a cooler bag

[Rowls]

The reason it's been allowed to happen, incidentally, is entirely contrary to the rationale behind the thread. It is because food has become so cheap and plentiful that we can afford far more of it, and also that motor transport has become so cheap and available that we take less exercise. Obesity is a function of increased wealth, not poverty. (Absolute wealth, not relative wealth.)

Our wealth and abundance (even the poorest in wealthy countries like ours) is clearly a factor behind the increase in obesity dsr.

However, it very clearly is not the only factor at play. In fact as this thread has shown, the poorest in our country are actually the fattest. A simple cause & effect between wealth and body size clearly doesn't work as a theory. Not only does it not work, the exact opposite is on display - the wealthier you are in the UK, the less likely you are to be fat or obese.

Ditto your idea with motorcar travel. Yes, what you describe is clearly a factor. Increased affordability of cars and the ensuing lack of exercise is clearly a factor. However there are a multitude of other factors at play.

In terms of cars let's take Burnley as an example: The town centre was wrecked in the 60s by the town planners. They envisaged a future of people travelling everywhere by car and tried to make that happen. The result is that a small town is scarred with dual carriageways and clogged with levels of traffic is cannot ever and dotted with ugly car parks. This has made Burnley ugly and spoiled the town but these road layouts and plans have made it a nightmare to attempt to get into town by any other method.

Burnley, as we all know, is a small town. By its size, it ought to be an ideal candidate for people to be able to walk or cycle into town. If you live in Burnley or Padiham you're not going to have to go more than 5 miles to get into town. If you walk or cycle into town you'll have to go around numerous obstacles like badly designed underpasses, pedestrian barriers and dual carriageways. These things all contribute towards people's decision making.

Here's another example: Tesco.

Burnley and Padiham have both had their pants pulled down by Tesco. "We'll build you a shiny superstore to improve the town and bring prosperity!" is what Tesco have sold the councils. What Tesco then proceed to do is to carefully and cunningly place and design their stores to tempt you into a car-based bulk-shopping routine rather than making regular small shops.

They do this because people spend more money when they do bulk shops as opposed to regular small shops. On a small shop, people are more inclined to only buy the items they need but on a bulk shop they'll be less disciplined and will end up with more high profit items in their trolleys (never their baskets, they don't want people using baskets because they buy less).

Take a look at the placement of Tesco in Padiham and Burnley. What do you notice? They're both *behind* physical barriers. This is NOT an accident. The big Tesco in Burnley is behind a dual carriageway - they've chosen this site very deliberately. The Tesco in Padiham is behind the main row of shops but even that wasn't enough of a barrier - they built an additional wall around it to discourage pedestrian use. At every stage of planning, car use is prioritised and encouraged and walking is actively discouraged.

Tesco have undoubtedly done this deliberately. The road planners in the 60s would not have been as cynical but the result is the same. The town becomes an inhospitable environment to walk/cycle and so people "choose" to go in the car. If we had a town that was nicer to walk and cycle around, more people would make the healthier choice to walk or cycle.

This is only one small factor that is making people fat. Just like a single chocolate bar won't make you fat, there is no single factor at play here - there are lots and lots of factors contributing. Things not yet mentioned:

The design *inside* supermarkets
The collapse of marriage in working class communities
The rise in single parenthood in working class communities
The loss of cooking skills among the working classes
Targeted advertising pushing unhealthy options
The rise of smartphones & delivery apps
The proliferation of takeaway outlets in poorer areas
Offers and discounts on unhealthier options
Increased societal acceptance of people being overweight

That's just off the top of my head. All these factors and many more are contributing on top of supermarket design and placement.

[Rowls]

Another factor I'd overlooked that Carlos the Great brought up:

Big decrease in children's outdoor play & unsupervised play

[dsr]

I know you have qualified that statement to highlight the nuance that we do live in a wealthy society, but the truth is communities affected by deprivation and low income will, broadly speaking, not exhibit behaviour that supports healthy living, relative to the rest of our society. This might mean drugs and alcohol, or smoking, but it also includes lack of exercise and diet with an over reliance on processed foods and junk food.

Burnley (at least parts of it) is, by comparison to the rest of Britain, deprived. And all these health and lifestyle indicators that adversely affect people’s quality of life and life expectancy are here in ample supply.

All true.

I was just highlighting that it isn't lack of money that stops people eating healthily.

[Rowls]

All true.

I was just highlighting that it isn't lack of money that stops people eating healthily.

Haha.

Yes but ... errrr ...

No. Can't disagree with anything there!

[RicardoMontalban]

All true.

I was just highlighting that it isn't lack of money that stops people eating healthily.

I think it’s more complicated than that and equating deprivation with just being a lack of money misses the point. It’s low educational attainment as well, or at least a gap in education. Is home ecc a subject still in schools, or if it is is it still compulsory? Are people growing up with the basic skills that prepare them for life, such as being able to cook for themselves?

The basic facts are if you come from a more deprived area you are statistically more likely to be obese. Reducing it down to bank balance misses the much wider spectrum of deprivation.

[willsclarets]

So many factors as highlighted above. My bugbear is that there's so much in our supermarkets that is massively processed, and barely food at all. It's frightening. We're flogged a load of crap in attractive packaging that is loaded with emulsifiers and preservatives. Fresh food is marketed as something of a luxury, for well to do folk with a lot of money. It's nonsense.

Education and passing down skills through generations has bitten the dust. My granny knew so much about making stocks, using different parts of cheaper cuts of meat, baking etc. She had zero money, but she ate very healthily. Now there is a time issue for a lot of people, but if you have a high base knowledge of cookery you can always knock something together quickly.

I'm lucky in that I enjoy cooking a lot, but there's a huge myth that it's difficult, time consuming and expensive. It's not. It's just access to information and a bit of confidence

[Rowls]

I think it’s more complicated than that and equating deprivation with just being a lack of money misses the point. It’s low educational attainment as well, or at least a gap in education. Is home ecc a subject still in schools, or if it is is it still compulsory? Are people growing up with the basic skills that prepare them for life, such as being able to cook for themselves?

The basic facts are if you come from a more deprived area you are statistically more likely to be obese. Reducing it down to bank balance misses the much wider spectrum of deprivation.

Home economics lessons at school cannot possibly ever teach somebody fully how to cook.

This needs to be done in the home by families.

The solution is not the government spending more of our money. The solution is nurturing these skills in families to help them look after themselves.

[RicardoMontalban]

Home economics lessons at school cannot possibly ever teach somebody fully how to cook.

This needs to be done in the home by families.

The solution is not the government spending more of our money. The solution is nurturing these skills in families to help them look after themselves.

Home ecc lessons can absolutely give youngsters a basic grounding in some of the basics. It isn’t as if I suggested teaching bored kids to their city and guilds certificates! It would absolutely stunning if each and every family gave people those skills from a nurturing base, but that clearly doesn’t happen, and saying it should won’t make it so or fix the problems.

Your views on the welfare state and the role of government are no great mystery so your response isn’t a surprise, but is it so radical to suggest that there may be some gaps in pastoral education these days.

[Rowls]

Home ecc lessons can absolutely give youngsters a basic grounding in some of the basics.

We'll have to disagree on this. I don't think a teacher with a class of 20-30 twelve year olds can teach them all how to, for example, cook an egg. It's something that needs to be done at home in the family kitchen. As basic as this is as a kitchen task, you *need* one-to-one tuition and you need to be at the hob yourself. This is easy in the home kitchen and difficult/impossible in a classroom environment.

The other aspect is that schools have much more important subjects for them to prioritise that cannot be as effectively taught in the home. Namely maths, English and science.

It isn’t as if I suggested teaching bored kids to their city and guilds certificates! It would absolutely stunning if each and every family gave people those skills from a nurturing base, but that clearly doesn’t happen, and saying it should won’t make it so or fix the problems.

That's spot on. Words are cheap and easy. I'd like to see cooking lessons focused on those in most need - those who are referred to foodbanks would be the best place to start. Foodbank referrals should include cooking lessons IMO.

Your views on the welfare state and the role of government are no great mystery so your response isn’t a surprise, but is it so radical to suggest that there may be some gaps in pastoral education these days.

We agree entirely on the lack of cooking skills and the problems this is causing. There's nothing radical in accepting this at all. We only disagree on how best to ensure cooking skills are taught and passed down.

I think the best way would be for families to take responsibility for this and pass on the skills down through the generations. You're proposing that tax payers fund schools to teach these skills.

The problem (as you correctly highlighted by pointing out that merely 'saying so' is not a solution) is that as with anything, destruction is easy. Building anything worthwhile or beautiful is difficult and takes time.

The thing that has been destroyed in this instance is the passing down of basic cookery skills through strong family networks. It was all too easy to destroy this. It will be difficult to build it back up again.

[bfcmik]

Nothing to do with aiming for longevity well into old age. Eating healthily and exercise is more about avoiding the type of stuff that can crew you up when you could be enjoying an active and heathy middle-age - like heart disease, risk of stroke, type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, osteoarthritis etc.

I am 70 years old, I have been 'obese for over 30 years, I have low 'bad' cholesterol, reasonable blood pressure, I've been classed as pre-diabetic for almost 30 years but, fortunately, my numbers haven't changed at all in that time. I play walking football for 2 or 3 hours a week (believe me, ordinary walking bears no resemblance to playing walking football) at a decent standard, including at County League level and rarely get ill, though my recovery time from broken ribs in the summer is taking way longer than I expected. What I have noticed is that standing for extended periods of time has become more painful, partially due to residual back problems from my days as a nurse for adults with severe learning disabilities.

I'm not saying this to brag, but rather to explain to people that increased risk isn't always a guarantee you will get these things. For some reason I have stayed within 5kg up or down from 155kg for over 20 years now.

[Jakubclaret]

I used to make my own food in small weighed out tubs and take with me in a cooler bag

I dare say some people will but 1 doesn't apply to everybody, when I was on the road behind the wheel I'd mix it with sandwiches & cafes & broths in the Stanley flasks the last thing I had time to do is cook meals in a kitchen.

[Roger1960]

Tesco is where it is because they would never have found a site big enough for their store closer to the town centre without actually demolishing the whole centre it’s just a function of the size of the stores and available sites not as Machiavellian or calculating as you think . The question of whether there should be such large one stop stores is a different one

[yTib]

teaching myself to cook, sew and engineer have been invaluable to me.

i didn't learn any of those things in school.

the modern education system isn't fit for purpose.

[yTib]

i say modern..

god i forgot how old i am but i think it's gotten worse.

[dsr]

Tesco is where it is because they would never have found a site big enough for their store closer to the town centre without actually demolishing the whole centre it’s just a function of the size of the stores and available sites not as Machiavellian or calculating as you think . The question of whether there should be such large one stop stores is a different one

Large one-stop stores are far more convenient and cheaper for the people who are short of money and/or time that most of this thread is about. When you think how incredibly cheap both food and clothes are compared with 50 years ago, the supermarkets have to be given a large share of the credit.