Football Focus - Beyer

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 1:57 pm

Know it’s one of those programmes that some people have stopped watching, but might be worth watching/recording/catching up on tomorrow’s episode as there is a feature with Beyer

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:00 pm

Playing his piano too - something we saw in the Mechanics at the end of last season

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:15 pm

I’d rather our players not be featured at all tbh. Especially not those I consider to be an absolute gem.

claretcarrot93 · Post by **claretcarrot93** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:16 pm

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 1:57 pm
Know it’s one of those programmes that some people have stopped watching, but might be worth watching/recording/catching up on tomorrow’s episode as there is a feature with Beyer

Terrible defender suddenly according to some on here. One of our best players and will have a great career. Seems switched on as well

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:19 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:00 pm
Playing his piano too - something we saw in the Mechanics at the end of last season

From his reaction to it, it’s definitely not his piano

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:21 pm

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:16 pm
Terrible defender suddenly according to some on here. One of our best players and will have a great career. Seems switched on as well

Far from terrible but doesn't look like he will make the grade at centre half in the PL - at least for a team that isn't dominating matches... might be more suited at fullback.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:22 pm

Sounds well woke.

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:35 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:21 pm
Far from terrible but doesn't look like he will make the grade at centre half in the PL - at least for a team that isn't dominating matches... might be more suited at fullback.

He’s played 12 games in the Premier League and he’s 23 years old. He’s easily our best defender and only going to get better. Especially when we get some better players around him in a year or two.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:37 pm

MDWat wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:35 pm
He’s played 12 games in the Premier League and he’s 23 years old. He’s easily our best defender and only going to get better. Especially when we get some better players around him in a year or two.

To be fair "far from terrible" is the most positive thing CoolClaret has said this season.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:42 pm

I think he's proving very costly for us - he doesn't have the discipline to play in that position right now at the level we're at.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:42 pm

MDWat wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:35 pm
He’s played 12 games in the Premier League and he’s 23 years old. He’s easily our best defender and only going to get better. Especially when we get some better players around him in a year or two.

Disagree that he's our best defender.

Of course has room to grow - just think he's undersized and has struggled when under the cosh this season.

Ric_C · Post by **Ric_C** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:29 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:42 pm
I think he's proving very costly for us - he doesn't have the discipline to play in that position right now at the level we're at.

He's the least of our worries at the moment

Superjohnnyfrancis · Post by **Superjohnnyfrancis** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:36 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:21 pm
Far from terrible but doesn't look like he will make the grade at centre half in the PL - at least for a team that isn't dominating matches... might be more suited at fullback.

Yeah might be less exposed there and just play ekdal instead of O’Shea , win win.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:42 pm

Absolutely no coincidence performances improved when he came back. We’ve been absolutely destroyed without him. One of the players who I think wears his heart on his sleeve and gives his all.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:02 pm

He is a very good footballer and when we finally use him in the Rodri role he will be very much sought after.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:07 pm

summitclaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:02 pm
He is a very good footballer and when we finally use him in the Rodri role he will be very much sought after.

What attributes have you seen that make you think he could or should be used in the Rodri role?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:12 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:42 pm
I think he's proving very costly for us - he doesn't have the discipline to play in that position right now at the level we're at.

He would be massively helped if he had some PL experience alongside him. I agree about the discipline but that is something he will learn (it's surprising that VK hasn't got him better at it tbh), oh for a Mee or Tarkowski

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:14 pm

Beyer is a very good footballer but I'm not convinced he is a great "defender". He's certainly one of our better options at the moment and him breaking the lines has been an important part of our play, but I actually think O'Shea is a better defender than Beyer it's just he's a more limited footballer.

O'Shea has become a bit of a scapegoat and I'll probably take pelters for it, but I think he'll become a good player in the future. I think he'd be a great fit for a Dyche side/system.

StayingDown4Ever · Post by **StayingDown4Ever** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:22 pm

boyyanno wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:14 pm

O'Shea has become a bit of a scapegoat and I'll probably take pelters for it, but I think he'll become a good player in the future. I think he'd be a great fit for a Dyche side/system.

We are talking about Dara O’Shea, right!? No idea what you’ve seen of him that makes you think he’ll be a good player in the future. He’s been poor most times he’s played - and was particularly honking against Everton last time out.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:25 pm

boyyanno wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:14 pm
Beyer is a very good footballer but I'm not convinced he is a great "defender". He's certainly one of our better options at the moment and him breaking the lines has been an important part of our play, but I actually think O'Shea is a better defender than Beyer it's just he's a more limited footballer.

O'Shea has become a bit of a scapegoat and I'll probably take pelters for it, but I think he'll become a good player in the future. I think he'd be a great fit for a Dyche side/system.

Half agree.

Think his short range passing is poor but that’s in VK for asking the team to play that way.

I think the most comfortable our defense has looked all season was away at Wolves with O’Shea and Ekdal.

Beyer may be more suited to full back or rcb in a three for me.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:40 pm

Our best defender and best passing success % in the team.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:58 pm

StayingDown4Ever wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:22 pm
We are talking about Dara O’Shea, right!? No idea what you’ve seen of him that makes you think he’ll be a good player in the future. He’s been poor most times he’s played - and was particularly honking against Everton last time out.

80% - Virgil van Dijk has the best aerial win rate of any player in the Premier League this season (min. 30 contested):
78% - Dara O'Shea (45/58)
77% - Kristoffer Ajer (24/31)
75% - Thiago Silva (30/40)
74% - Joël Matip (28/38)

He just needs to figure the rest out

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:00 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:07 pm
What attributes have you seen that make you think he could or should be used in the Rodri role?

He reads the game well and I think that would enable us to defend better, like we did when Cock was playing regularly. In a 4141 or 4132.

He is confident in possession and can dribble well and his passing is generally good both long and short. Also, his signature is breaking the lines, which I think he could do well from the proposed role. However, if it doesn't come off, there would still be 2 cbs behind him.

He also has a good shot in him.

Importantly he is six foot (just), which would enable us to play 2 taller centre backs.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:03 pm

taio wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:40 pm
Our best defender and best passing success % in the team.

& O’Shea has our joint most assists despite having 11 wingers on the books

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:04 pm

He’s not been great so far this season but still think he’s got all the attributes to be a top defender. Hopefully he’ll be partnered next to a solid centre half in Ekdal tomorrow and for the foreseeable future.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:05 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:58 pm
80% - Virgil van Dijk has the best aerial win rate of any player in the Premier League this season (min. 30 contested):
78% - Dara O'Shea (45/58)
77% - Kristoffer Ajer (24/31)
75% - Thiago Silva (30/40)
74% - Joël Matip (28/38)

He just needs to figure the rest out

Like stop giving the ball away that lead to goals against us!

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:40 pm

If Beyer isn’t up to it at this level, he was in a back four with Delcroix, O’Shea and Vitinho last week - just let that sink in for a minute…..

mickleoverclaret · Post by **mickleoverclaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:50 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:03 pm
& O’Shea has our joint most assists despite having 11 wingers on the books

He's ahead if you include his assist for Keane on Saturday!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:55 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:04 pm
He’s not been great so far this season but still think he’s got all the attributes to be a top defender. Hopefully he’ll be partnered next to a solid centre half in Ekdal tomorrow and for the foreseeable future.

I think he has the atrributes to be a very good player but I'm not sure about his defensive ability at this level. He's exposing O'Shea time and again, he just seems to lack defensive nous.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:58 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:40 pm
If Beyer isn’t up to it at this level, he was in a back four with Delcroix, O’Shea and Vitinho last week - just let that sink in for a minute…..

Yep. Imagine what people must think of the others….

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:05 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:22 pm
Sounds well woke.

What does? Beyer, his piano playing, the Mechanics or the programme?

expoultryboy · Post by **expoultryboy** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:14 pm

If Brownhill goes ( as some on here have said ) in January , I'd like to see him play alongside Berge as defensive midfield with O'shea and Ekdal at the back . Might not work but nothing has up to now.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:19 pm

I think Beyer at this stage would be best deployed at right back. It requires a little less physicality and is a bit more forgiving defensively and would give him a platform for those marauding runs of his.

I don't think he's done especially well at centre back although I absolutely think he's got potential. He's relatively young and at this stage a little lightweight (when he first arrived he was very slender and it was noticeable how much he filled out last season but he still has more to do).

For my money O'Shea has the more effective defender this season and I don't think he deserves the criticism that he has received. He's stood up well to the physicality of the Premier League and whilst he doesn't have out and out pace and has been exposed a bit occasionally, I think he has shown he might step-up to this level given time. I certainly think he'll be outstanding in the Championship if we go down. He's about the first defender on the team sheet at the moment and I'd like to see his partnership with Ekdal given a run - i thought it looked promising at Wolves.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:24 pm

He’s a terrific player.

I still maintain he’ll get capped by Germany at senior level.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:25 pm

claretspice wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:19 pm
I think Beyer at this stage would be best deployed at right back. It requires a little less physicality and is a bit more forgiving defensively and would give him a platform for this marauding runs of his.

I don't think he's done especially well at centre back although I absolutely think he's got potential. He's relatively young and at this stage a little lightweight (when he first arrived he was very slender and it was noticeable how much he filled out last season but he still has more to do).

For my money O'Shea has the more effective defender this season and I don't think he deserves the criticism that he has received. He's stood up well to the physicality of the Premier League and whilst he doesn't have out and out pace and has been exposed a bit occasionally, I think he has shown he might step-up to this level given time. I certainly think he'll be outstanding in the Championship if we go down. He's about the first defender on the team sheet at the moment and I'd like to see his partnership with Ekdal given a run - i thought it looked promising at Wolves.

Agreed Spice.

The only thing for me is that Vitinho has been playing well and rn we have our right back overlapping and staying high and wide - if we are to invert the fullback into midfield Beyer could be the man for it.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:32 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:25 pm
Agreed Spice.

The only thing for me is that Vitinho has been playing well and rn we have our right back overlapping and staying high and wide - if we are to invert the fullback into midfield Beyer could be the man for it.

It's a role I think he's played quite a bit before.

That is a fair point about Vitinho. For the next 3 games, however, there'd be a lot to be said for playing Vitinho further forwards, in front of Beyer.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:34 pm

claretspice wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:32 pm
It's a role I think he's played quite a bit before.

That is a fair point about Vitinho. For the next 3 games, however, there'd be a lot to be said for playing Vitinho further forwards, in front of Beyer.

That’s another option if we were to go three at the back, not the biggest fan of that system but we definitely have ready made RCB/LCB in Beyer and Chaz

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:39 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:34 pm
That’s another option if we were to go three at the back, not the biggest fan of that system but we definitely have ready made RCB/LCB in Beyer and Chaz

I don't think it even needs that personally. Keep the 442, but with Vitinho deployed to press high and wide on the right. When he played there last season whilst he didn't do loads constructively with the ball, he pressed strongly and gave us a dynamic presence on that flank and I'd have thought it'd be a decent option as an alternative to JBG. Gives us extra height at set plays too.

Goliath · Post by **Goliath** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:40 pm

Vitinho shouldnt be anywhere near the teamsheet for me. He sums up our struggles in a nutshell. Can look nice and tidy on the ball then does something incredibly daft.
Hes weak both mentally and physically wuth terrible end product on top of that

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:42 pm

Goliath wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:40 pm
Vitinho shouldnt be anywhere near the teamsheet for me. He sums up our struggles in a nutshell. Can look nice and tidy on the ball thrn does something incredibly daft.
Hes weak both mentally and physically wuth terrible end product on top of that

Harsh that.

Been running his nads off since he came back in to the side and has been getting stuck in. Still learning arguably the hardest position in the game

Goliath · Post by **Goliath** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:45 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:42 pm
Harsh that.

Been running his nads off since he came back in to the side and has been getting stuck in. Still learning arguably the hardest position in the game

I wouldnt question his work rate, i just dont think hes anywhere near this level. The amount of times hes dived in and let people run past him or just fouled them is ridiculous.
His ball across for Amdouni was absolutely diabolical against Everton. We just cant afford to pass up chances like that. Id accept his weaknesses defensively if he contributed offensively but too often his decision making is rushed

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:28 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:05 pm
What does? Beyer, his piano playing, the Mechanics or the programme?

The piano. Ebony and ivory, living in perfect harmony.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:37 pm

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:24 pm
He’s a terrific player.

I still maintain he’ll get capped by Germany at senior level.

As much as I love Beyer I don't think that is a fair compliment with the state of the German national team currently

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:29 pm

Goliath wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:40 pm
Vitinho shouldnt be anywhere near the teamsheet for me. He sums up our struggles in a nutshell. Can look nice and tidy on the ball then does something incredibly daft.
Hes weak both mentally and physically wuth terrible end product on top of that

Completely agree with you on this.

It’s amazing how some supporters don’t see him as a significant part of the defensive issues we clearly have just because he tries hard.

Full back positions are vital in today’s game - especially with the way VK wants us to play. He’s brother good enough defensively or offensively.

Lord_Bob · Post by **Lord_Bob** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:49 pm

Part of the issue, in my opinion (and this is a bugaboo of mine) is that Beyer has to play LCB as we don't have a natural left footed option (Delcroix?). Beyer is asked to do that because he is head and shoulders the best CB we have. If we could find a decent LCB then Beyer would not only be just fine, he'd be one of the top CBs around.

groove · Post by **groove** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:09 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:58 pm
80% - Virgil van Dijk has the best aerial win rate of any player in the Premier League this season (min. 30 contested):
78% - Dara O'Shea (45/58)
77% - Kristoffer Ajer (24/31)
75% - Thiago Silva (30/40)
74% - Joël Matip (28/38)

He just needs to figure the rest out

This could be really handy if we man marked for corners.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:21 pm

Beyer is looking a bit lightweight for this level at present. Think he'd be suited to playing with a big powerhouse who goes and wins everything and let Beyer play as a sweeper.

Goliath · Post by **Goliath** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:26 pm

Beyer would be excellent in a 3.

wbfc · Post by **wbfc** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:55 pm

Beyer is about the same level as Caldwell...

O Shea similar good attitude but not a premier league defender

Think we need better even in the championship

Al Dakhil looked terrible when playing with Oshea earlier in the season but he has to be the future

I think we need an experienced centre half ...not sure if we could afford either the transfer fee or wages but Michael Keane could be the answer

KlyBfc · Post by **KlyBfc** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 11:09 pm

The Love affair with Beyer completely looks past the reality. I saw that last year v qpr when THB got blamed for a goal which actually showed JB to be completely out of position yet folk went in on THB that day. This year his mistakes v palace West Ham Arsenal Everton seem to be completely over looked. I’m not anti JB but how OShea is made out to be worse than him shows complete bias. OShea is far from what we need right now but let’s not pretend Beyer has been any better. He has made mistakes which have cost us (more than once ) and that’s whilst cruising through games as the spare man.