Sam Allardyce is going to be happy

[Rowls]

I saw that in the article but it wasn't clear whether it was down to UK or EU legislation.

I've found the EU legislation now and can see it is down to EU.

I think it is sensible having fixed sizes, particularly if it is something the sector requested (which it seems they did, including the UK who are members of the federation that requested it).

If you're part of a big trading block then it is sensible for that block to set the sizes (with input from members).

If not then the individual country can set the sizes (which will still involve people having to do the work). Realistically though they're going to follow what the rest of the market is doing rather than incur huge extra costs to go their own way (or charge a significant premium for those non-standard sizes).

I think the number of 500ml bottles of wine you see in shops shows the demand for other sizes.

Yes there's pros and cons to regulating or not.

But why regulate wine but not, for example, chocolate bars? The same arguments could apply equally to chocolate bars as it could do with wine.

And yet, chocolate bars never got regulated sizes.

But the massively politically powerful french wine industry did.

Like I say, there's pros and cons to regulation/not regulating/more regulation/ less regulation.

I'm very much a fan of the "less regulation" option when it comes to wine bottle size. Infinitely more importantly I'm in favour of having these rules set by elected UL politicians.

And I happen to think pint bottles will be successful for the same reason nobody buys "1.136 litres" of milk.

[Rowls]

As most of our drinkable wine came from the EU, I can't see that as being any kind of issue.

But now I can buy a pint of sh!t wine? Oh good.

Lol. I've already slagged off the government for the way they've presented this but if folk like yourself re-orientate the debate in snobbery like that then the pints o' wine will fly off the shelves.

[aggi]

Do Americans buy wine by the pint? If they do they'll have an advantage because they'll be ready to jump into the new market before the EU producers can as they'll have production and bottles already set up.

They don't. Even though they don't use ml over there they still sell wine in 750ml bottles (which I think highlights how unlikely it is that these new wine sizes will take off).

But even on the slim chance they did suddenly decide to get in on the pint of wine, their pints are smaller than ours so we wouldn't be at the forefront of anything.

[dougcollins]

Lol. I've already slagged off the government for the way they've presented this but if folk like yourself re-orientate the debate in snobbery like that then the pints o' wine will fly off the shelves.

You call it what you want, I'll call it stating facts.

[Rowls]

They don't. Even though they don't use ml over there they still sell wine in 750ml bottles (which I think highlights how unlikely it is that these new wine sizes will take off).

But even on the slim chance they did suddenly decide to get in on the pint of wine, their pints are smaller than ours so we wouldn't be at the forefront of anything.

Cheers for this info.

I think there's a potential market here. It'll be s small percentage of wine sold but that will make it a multi million pound industry.

Only time will tell.

Right! I've had enough now and it's getting closer to bedtime so I'm going to have a swift 284ml of beer.

[Rowls]

You call it what you want, I'll call it stating facts.

You're labelling all non-EU wine in the world as "s**t". That's not a "fact", it's snobbery.

[Clovius Boofus]

Years ago I was arguing with a Trotskyist who claimed that the reason why communism hasn't worked is because it has never been implemented properly. I've heard diehard Leavers say the same about Brexit.

[Greenmile]

…We'll also be able to sell new world wine in these bottles. The EU legislation applies/applied to ALL wine sold in the UK. Do Americans buy wine by the pint? If they do they'll have an advantage because they'll be ready to jump into the new market before the EU producers can as they'll have production and bottles already set up.

You’re so desperate to find any kind of Brexit “benefit” that you haven’t even realised that a US pint is an entirely different measurement from a UK pint.

Start marketing “wine by the pint” to the US market, and I suspect they might be a bit confused as to why it costs more than half a liter (sic) does.

If you bump this thread in 5 years time, and pints of wine are filling the shelves of UK supermarkets, I will donate £350 million per week to the charity of your choice.

[Rowls]

If you bump this thread in 5 years time, and pints of wine are filling the shelves of UK supermarkets, I will donate £350 million per week to the charity of your choice.

I'll do my level best to remember but I won't hold you to the debt.

Feel free the continue misrepresenting me until then.

Brexit economic benefits will be felt in 10, 20, 30 years time when the global economy favours those committed to free trade. The EU might not last that long. The trade deals we've already signed will grow and grow.

Any bloc which acts as a protectionist racket will stagnate.

The political benefits of Brexit are here already: the buck now stops in Westminster, not Brussels.

[Greenmile]

…
Brexit economic benefits will be felt in 10, 20, 30 years time…

They should have put that on the side of the bus.

[Rowls]

They should have put that on the side of the bus.

The benefits have started already - just aren't being "felt" in terms of hitting the headlines (yet).

It's stuff like this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=brazil+ ... e&ie=UTF-8

£2.5 billion is not small beans.

And that's just one country and one increase. We've signed similar deals with Australia, new Zealand and that Asian trade alliance whose name escapes me.

On top of that, we're negotiating with India and that will be a massive deal when it goes through and a deal with the USA when it happens will be massive. All that needs to happen for that to take place is to have the right president in office for four years. Many states are asking for a trade deal with the UK and it makes perfect sense for the USA to deal with us. The only reason it's not happened yet is because the current incumbent is a petty anti British chap who imagines that he's "Irish".

The next figure that needs to go on the side of a bus is £4300: The amount the treasury said we'd all be poorer by in 2030. That was their prediction on 2016. We're half way there and the prediction hinged on the EU outstripping the UK in projected growth after 2016. That hadn't happened. Both economies habe stagnated but the UK has done marginally better. The treasury predicted we'd do significantly worse.

You could be fair and re-set the start date for this to 2021 (when Brexit took effect) but the story is the same: the prediction is failing and we're doing marginally better than the EU rather than the predicted 'significantly worse'.

[Clovius Boofus]

Rowls, I don't mean to be mean, but you don't half remind me of the Trot I mentioned. Sometimes, some things are such a bad idea, that no amount of wishful thinking will make it right. By the way, I'm saying this as a conservative. What some people seem to forget in their childish 'culture wars' is that not all conservatives were Leavers.

We aren't going to go back, but we do need a new trade deal that serves our exporters well. Not one leading Brexiteer advocated a hard Brexit during the referendum campaign. Even leading companies who publically backed Brexit didn't expect an economically damaging hard Brexit deal.

Anyhow, that's enough of that. Plenty of other less divisive threads to waste time on, rather than going raking over old coals.

[Rowls]

Rowls, I don't mean to be mean, but you don't half remind me of the Trot I mentioned. Sometimes, some things are such a bad idea, that no amount of wishful thinking will make it right. By the way, I'm saying this as a conservative. What some people seem to forget in their childish 'culture wars' is that not all conservatives were Leavers.

We aren't going to go back, but we do need a new trade deal that serves our exporters well. Not one leading Brexiteer advocated a hard Brexit during the referendum campaign. Even leading companies who publically backed Brexit didn't expect an economically damaging hard Brexit deal.

Anyhow, that's enough of that. Plenty of other less divisive threads to waste time on, rather than going raking over old coals.

Hi Clovius,

For me to fit in with your allusion I'd need to be saying that Brexit "isn't working because it's not being implemented".

As you can see from my post above, that's not what I'm saying.

Sorry but your allusion doesn't hold up. The benefits are only just coming in. Expect to hear more about them at the next election or click on the link iny post above.

[claret2018]

Rowls mate let it go

[Rowls]

Rowls mate let it go

It's all cool claret 2018.

[Greenmile]

The benefits have started already - just aren't being "felt" in terms of hitting the headlines (yet).

It's stuff like this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=brazil+ ... e&ie=UTF-8

£2.5 billion is not small beans.

And that's just one country and one increase. We've signed similar deals with Australia, new Zealand and that Asian trade alliance whose name escapes me.

On top of that, we're negotiating with India and that will be a massive deal when it goes through and a deal with the USA when it happens will be massive. All that needs to happen for that to take place is to have the right president in office for four years. Many states are asking for a trade deal with the UK and it makes perfect sense for the USA to deal with us. The only reason it's not happened yet is because the current incumbent is a petty anti British chap who imagines that he's "Irish".

The next figure that needs to go on the side of a bus is £4300: The amount the treasury said we'd all be poorer by in 2030. That was their prediction on 2016. We're half way there and the prediction hinged on the EU outstripping the UK in projected growth after 2016. That hadn't happened. Both economies habe stagnated but the UK has done marginally better. The treasury predicted we'd do significantly worse.

You could be fair and re-set the start date for this to 2021 (when Brexit took effect) but the story is the same: the prediction is failing and we're doing marginally better than the EU rather than the predicted 'significantly worse'.

Yeah ok - you’re right. Brexit has gone brilliantly and we’re all feeling so much better off than we were in 2016. We’ve already managed to secure our borders, as anyone can tell by watching the news.

We just need Trump to become dictator for life of the US and then we can start paying that £350m per week into the NHS.

[Devils_Advocate]

This Brazil thing doesn't look like a Brexit benefit to me seen as plenty of individual EU member states have done the same deal as us.

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/brazil/ind ... x-treaties

[Greenmile]

Anyway, back on topic, the whole “pints of wine” thing is quite obviously a smokescreen to cover for our esteemed govt dropping the proposed return to imperial measurement more generally (another of those longed-for Brexit “benefits”), because it runs out that nobody actually gave a toss, apart from a handful of lunatics.

https://www.rte.ie/news/uk/2023/1227/14 ... asurement/

[Rowls]

Yeah ok - you’re right. Brexit has gone brilliantly and we’re all feeling so much better off than we were in 2016. We just need Trump to become dictator for life of the US and then we can start paying that £350m per week into the NHS.

It's pretty pointless debating you because you never debate the point, it's all invective or "yeah but what about this" or some witty but irrelevant aphorism you've heard elsewhere.

You almost certainly hadn't heard that trade with Brazil had gone up £2.5 billion since Brexit but most likely neither has anybody else.

The public perception of Brexit has changed because the leave campaigners have stopped but the remainers are still at it like se demented imperialist Japanese soldier running around a Pacific island.

If the public knew how things like trade with Brazil has shot up, if the government properly explained how pointless EU wine bottle regulations are instead of presenting it as "pints o'wine" then Brexit would go back up in popularity.

The other thing the remainer rejoiner obsessives seem to have missed is that the conditions now required to re-join the EU would be completely unacceptable.

The door has well and truly shut. Brexit was a one-way thing. There's no going back.

When the eurozone / EU fails to outstrip the UK and as the economic growth from better trade outside the EU gathers pace the benefits will become more and more obvious.

The worst possible outcome for Brexit is that a europhile PM (Eh. Sir Kier Starter) renegotiates a worse trade deal with the EU. However, if he's daft enough to do that (don't rule it out) then his time in power will be short.

Coupled with that, the electorate won't get fooled I'm the same way twice. If anybody ever does this, their lasting legacy will be to ensure it isn't allowed to happen again.

The deal we currently have with the EU can be a lot better but it will be renegotiated from now until eternity and the long term direction will be inexorably I'm the favour of progressive free trade and away from the protectionist EU model of trade.

Goodnight, god bless!

[Greenmile]

.

The public perception of Brexit has changed because the leave campaigners have stopped but the remainers are still at it like se demented imperialist Japanese soldier running around a Pacific island.

If the public knew how things like trade with Brazil has shot up, if the government properly explained how pointless EU wine bottle regulations are instead of presenting it as "pints o'wine" then Brexit would go back up in popularity.

<insert Principal Skinner meme here>

(at least you didn’t use a racist slur for the Japanese people this time - small mercies, I suppose)

[TheFamilyCat]

Except sparkling wine can't be sold in that volume? Do you care to explain why and defend the legislation?

And even if a 500ml is "legal" they aren't readily available.

You're right, you can't even get the half bottles unless you go somewhere huge

Presumably because there's no demand. There's a very high possibility that there'll be no demand for pint bottles either.

[TheFamilyCat]

Rowls argument that he should be able to find a bottle with the exact amount of wine he needs at his local shop is at the Ali G level of sophistication and stupidity.

Here is Ali G (1min40 - 2min40) talking about money denominations in the same way Rowls thinks about wine bottle capacity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksGzn5b ... nel=ScottC

Maybe they could do a wine equivalent of Weigh & Save.

[Rowls]

This Brazil thing doesn't look like a Brexit benefit to me seen as plenty of individual EU member states have done the same deal as us.

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/brazil/ind ... x-treaties

Is this satire or don't you understand?

Countries in the UK can strike reciprocal tax arrangements with Brazil but they're still restricted by being inside the customs union.

We're not.

Has EU trade with Brazil increased by the same amount?

Has the EU struck deals with Australia and new Zealand?

Has the EU joined CPTPP?

These deals have just been signed. The benefits will grow and grow and grow.

[Rowls]

Presumably because there's no demand. There's a very high possibility that there'll be no demand for pint bottles either.

Well yes. That's the question.

But who do you want to decide? Yourself as a customer or some EU bureaucrat?

[yTib]

it's funny watching rowls fumbling around with his slippery eu shovel in an ever increasingly desperate way.

a bit like frank spencer doing some d.i.y.

[Rowls]

it's funny watching rowls fumbling around with his slippery eu shovel in an ever increasingly desperate way.

a bit like frank spencer doing some d.i.y.

Goodnight ytib. Happy New Year to you and hope everything you wish for 2024 comes true.

Take care.

[Devils_Advocate]

Is this satire or don't you understand?

Countries in the UK can strike reciprocal tax arrangements with Brazil but they're still restricted by being inside the customs union.

We're not.

Has EU trade with Brazil increased by the same amount?

Has the EU struck deals with Australia and new Zealand?

Has the EU joined CPTPP?

These deals have just been signed. The benefits will grow and grow and grow.

We haven't got an FTA with Brazil, just an agreement that anyone can get regardless of them being in the EU or not. As for increased trade with Brazil its actually negligible if our trade has actually increased in real terms since 2019 once you account for inflation.

You had all the Brexit benefits you wanted to pick from and yet you chose this that has naff all to do with Brexit but then thats you in a nutshell.

[TheFamilyCat]

Well yes. That's the question.

But who do you want to decide? Yourself as a customer or some EU bureaucrat?

I haven't been asked as a customer. A politician has decided. Granted, it was a politician elected by the UK electorate but don't try and pretend this is consumer choice.

[distortiondave]

I (my mum) only buy(s) wine for her (self) in expensive half bottles because she's now 73, it's the wine she wants, in the quantity she wants and, I quote, ******** to the inheritance.

I only read the first few replies though, so I don't know if the thread has a turned into a WEHATEROWLS just because, or we all actually hate rowls now.

[Rowls]

I haven't been asked as a customer. A politician has decided. Granted, it was a politician elected by the UK electorate but don't try and pretend this is consumer choice.

Nobody mentioned being "asked"; it was about choice.

You'll now have a choice. You didn't before.

You're correct it was decided by a UK politician. You'll get a much more direct say on who is elected in the UK and the direction of our parliament than you ever could with the EU.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I’ll try not to rehash any of Rowls’ fighting the good fight on this, but the pint of wine has these definite advantages (as long as the producers produce new moulds to put these on the shelves):

1. Reduces drunkenness, where a 750ml bottle makes most of us drunk but a pint does not.
2. Aligns with the great Churchill, who said a pint is the perfect size for 2 glasses at lunch and 1 at dinner.
3. Winds up the French for whose benefit the 750ml protectionist racket rule was brought in for originally, a smaller cheaper bottle is obviously attractive to the consumer.
4. Helps reinforce imperial sizes, at threat for years despite our pints, feet, inches and miles. Kids have been ridiculously taught metric as the main measure since 1974. Imperial is better - try working out a third of a metre. Imperial can easily be divided into halves, thirds, quarters etc.

Obviously for those living here who hate Britain being independent though, it is bound to be a bad thing. But there isn’t really any reason to disagree with it.

[Greenmile]

I’ll try not to rehash any of Rowls’ fighting the good fight on this, but the pint of wine has these definite advantages (as long as the producers produce new moulds to put these on the shelves):

1. Reduces drunkenness, where a 750ml bottle makes most of us drunk but a pint does not.
2. Aligns with the great Churchill, who said a pint is the perfect size for 2 glasses at lunch and 1 at dinner.
3. Winds up the French for whose benefit the 750ml protectionist racket rule was brought in for originally, a smaller cheaper bottle is obviously attractive to the consumer.
4. Helps reinforce imperial sizes, at threat for years despite our pints, feet, inches and miles. Kids have been ridiculously taught metric as the main measure since 1974. Imperial is better - try working out a third of a metre. Imperial can easily be divided into halves, thirds, quarters etc.

Obviously for those living here who hate Britain being independent though, it is bound to be a bad thing. But there isn’t really any reason to disagree with it.

This post is almost fractally wrong. Every angle you try to approach it from jus4 brings more factual inaccuracies to light.

[Rowls]

I (my mum) only buy(s) wine for her (self) in expensive half bottles because she's now 73, it's the wine she wants, in the quantity she wants and, I quote, ******** to the inheritance.

I only read the first few replies though, so I don't know if the thread has a turned into a WEHATEROWLS just because, or we all actually hate rowls now.

You only need to read the posters names to know how it went.

Happy New year, dd.

[Rowls]

This post is almost fractally wrong. Every angle you try to approach it from jus4 brings more factual inaccuracies to light.

I think you've missed the tone of the post.

But do you care to defend the EU rules on wine bottle sizes?

[Greenmile]

I think you've missed the tone of the post...

The “tone” of the post could probably be best described as “Daily Express journalist suffering from late-stage dementia who has been unwittingly spiked with LSD by the Home Secretary”

[aggi]

I’ll try not to rehash any of Rowls’ fighting the good fight on this, but the pint of wine has these definite advantages (as long as the producers produce new moulds to put these on the shelves):

1. Reduces drunkenness, where a 750ml bottle makes most of us drunk but a pint does not.
2. Aligns with the great Churchill, who said a pint is the perfect size for 2 glasses at lunch and 1 at dinner.
3. Winds up the French for whose benefit the 750ml protectionist racket rule was brought in for originally, a smaller cheaper bottle is obviously attractive to the consumer.
4. Helps reinforce imperial sizes, at threat for years despite our pints, feet, inches and miles. Kids have been ridiculously taught metric as the main measure since 1974. Imperial is better - try working out a third of a metre. Imperial can easily be divided into halves, thirds, quarters etc.

Obviously for those living here who hate Britain being independent though, it is bound to be a bad thing. But there isn’t really any reason to disagree with it.

1. Sounds like 500ml or 375ml would be even better in that case.
2. Erm
3. So a smaller bottle like 500ml or 375ml?
4. Fair point, working out a third of a pint (6.33 imperial fluid ounces for those who somehow don't know) is way easier than a third of a litre (333.33 ml).

I don't think anyone really disagrees with it, more sees it as something almost entirely pointless.

[JohnMcGreal]

The political benefits of Brexit are here already

Political benefits such as 5 different Prime Ministers in 7 years?

That just screams a politically stable nation that's on the right track, doesn't it.

[chipbutty]

I can't believe that this thread has gone on for so long...

[aggi]

Yes there's pros and cons to regulating or not.

But why regulate wine but not, for example, chocolate bars? The same arguments could apply equally to chocolate bars as it could do with wine.

And yet, chocolate bars never got regulated sizes.

But the massively politically powerful french wine industry did.

Like I say, there's pros and cons to regulation/not regulating/more regulation/ less regulation.

I'm very much a fan of the "less regulation" option when it comes to wine bottle size. Infinitely more importantly I'm in favour of having these rules set by elected UL politicians.

And I happen to think pint bottles will be successful for the same reason nobody buys "1.136 litres" of milk.

Well wine is of equal density regardless of the product, chocolate bars aren't so much more difficult to standardise. Also the cost of their packaging is much lower than wine.

Given that the 750ml wine bottle is standard throughout the world, including places like the US where they don't even use ml, the legislation is probably secondary to the reality.

I've been drinking in places like the US and Australia and one thing that bugs me is the lack of standardisation, you never know how much you're going to get for your money compared to the UK where there is more regulation.

I think nobody buys 1.136 litres of milk in the same way that nobody buys a 0.58 pint can of coke.

[aggi]

I can't believe that this thread has gone on for so long...

I must admit when I started it I didn't expect anyone to take it too seriously but I guess we're in that slightly boring period between Christmas and New Year. Nobody has even posted this picture:

[Nori1958]

I must admit when I started it I didn't expect anyone to take it too seriously but I guess we're in that slightly boring period between Christmas and New Year. Nobody has even posted this picture:

Probably because he's drinking lager not wine

[Bordeauxclaret]

Todays quiz - name that lager.

[TheFamilyCat]

Todays quiz - name that lager.

Carling Brown Envelope

[Clovius Boofus]

Anyway, Allardyce is never going to be happy. He was on the radio the other day banging on about how he still feels hard done by for trying to land a £400,000 bung.

Anyhow, let's lighten the mood with a top tune, folks.

Brassneck - The Wedding Present

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9DjDh3yjSM

[atlantalad]

Todays quiz - name that lager.

Obviously Carlsberg- If Carlsberg did Dumbness…..

[Spike]

He’s just happy to stay out of jail!

[AfloatinClaret]

Many years ago when I was young and even more foolish, I spent an evening in Italy drinking red wine in pints; I'm told that I downed 'at least five, probably six and perhaps seven'. I have little recollection of the evening itself but strong memories, none of them good, from the following day; it's not an idea I would recommend or try to repeat

[Rileybobs]

Whenever I want a pint of wine I buy three of the 187ml bottles that are available in every large supermarket. Granted, that leaves me 7ml short of the magic measure but I see this as a good way of cutting down on my intake.

[Chobulous]

A standard bottle of wine has always been 750ml not just in Europe but across the world certainly as long as I have been alive. It’s nothing to do with EU rules, it’s a historical thing. Wine production was historically concentrated in the regions that were conducive to growing grapes. These regions were southern and Central Europe. They chose the size and shape of bottle that suited them long before the common market, EEC, EU were even thought of. Certainly long before wine was popular in the UK. These regions had strict controls on the production and marketing of their products eg the appellation controlle system. When wine production was introduced to new world areas they adored these practices in order to be competitive but recognisable.

[ecc]

Old wine in new bottles.