Fully Electric Cars

[Rileybobs]

From head of BMW service Southern California. Give him a bell.

The electric car I am looking at has a 67kwh battery - the energy tariff I would move to has an off-peak rate of 7.5/kWh - so £5 for a full charge. The stated range is 240 miles, so let’s say this is an average of 200 miles in reality - that’s 40 miles per pound, or 2.5p per mile. My current ICE car has a range of approximately 300 miles and costs about £90 to fill up currently. That is 3.3 miles per pound. Or 30p per mile.

So how is it more expensive to run an electric car?

[Rileybobs]

Edit 7.5p/kWh.

[dsr]

The electric car I am looking at has a 67kwh battery - the energy tariff I would move to has an off-peak rate of 7.5/kWh - so £5 for a full charge. The stated range is 240 miles, so let’s say this is an average of 200 miles in reality - that’s 40 miles per pound, or 2.5p per mile. My current ICE car has a range of approximately 300 miles and costs about £90 to fill up currently. That is 3.3 miles per pound. Or 30p per mile.

So how is it more expensive to run an electric car?

The cost of buying the thing in the first place. The report I read said that the increased cost of electric meant that the cost savings of running it did not make up for the additional cost of buying it, hence overall it is more expensive.

Of course, many petrol cars do a lot better than your approx 20-25 mpg.

[Stayingup]

The electric car I am looking at has a 67kwh battery - the energy tariff I would move to has an off-peak rate of 7.5/kWh - so £5 for a full charge. The stated range is 240 miles, so let’s say this is an average of 200 miles in reality - that’s 40 miles per pound, or 2.5p per mile. My current ICE car has a range of approximately 300 miles and costs about £90 to fill up currently. That is 3.3 miles per pound. Or 30p per mile.

So how is it more expensive to run an electric car?

It was in an article in a newspaper I read. I didn't note the specific details but I will have a browse and see what the author based his writing on.

By the way I have ordered a mild hybrid - sadly still not available until.next April - and the battery is 48v. I read, some time back now that the cars with heavy batteries 240v can't be jacked up in case of a flat and a wheel change. Don't know if thats true. Do you?

[Rileybobs]

The cost of buying the thing in the first place. The report I read said that the increased cost of electric meant that the cost savings of running it did not make up for the additional cost of buying it, hence overall it is more expensive.

Of course, many petrol cars do a lot better than your approx 20-25 mpg.

But I was responding to somebody who claimed that it is more expensive to run an electric car which quite clearly is incorrect. Obviously whether it is more economical to own one when you factor in purchase price etc depends on the individual’s circumstances. In my case I should save approx £2000 per year with everything considered. So I don’t understand why people are spreading false information to discourage people to consider buying electric cars - other than the obvious conclusion that they’re luddites.

[Rileybobs]

It was in an article in a newspaper I read. I didn't note the specific details but I will have a browse and see what the author based his writing on.

By the way I have ordered a mild hybrid - sadly still not available until.next April - and the battery is 48v. I read, some time back now that the cars with heavy batteries 240v can't be jacked up in case of a flat and a wheel change. Don't know if thats true. Do you?

No I don’t know if that’s true and it wouldn’t be a concern or consideration of mine in any case. I’ve never had a flat tyre that needs jacking in 19 years of driving.

[Joeandy1920]

I’ve had a Tesla, company car for the last 14 months, no way I could have afforded to buy one personally but I never had a problem charging, I did 27,000 without a problem, including the NC500 in Scotland and numerous trips to Wales (I live in Rugby) Saved a huge amount of money on fuel but the problem now is 62p per kilowatt if you use a Tesla or commercial charge point, which makes it not so good if you don’t have a home charger (which I have, but £600 to install) Current cost per kilowatt at home 19.5p.

[Casper]

Do you know how many petrol stations there are?

Il give you a hint, it’s considerably less.

You do know a petrol station has more than one pump don’t you

[Casper]

But I was responding to somebody who claimed that it is more expensive to run an electric car which quite clearly is incorrect. Obviously whether it is more economical to own one when you factor in purchase price etc depends on the individual’s circumstances. In my case I should save approx £2000 per year with everything considered. So I don’t understand why people are spreading false information to discourage people to consider buying electric cars - other than the obvious conclusion that they’re luddites.

People aren’t spreading false rumours just trying to help , why do you feel the need to slag people off , if you are buying one good luck to you .

[Rileybobs]

People aren’t spreading false rumours just trying to help , why do you feel the need to slag people off , if you are buying one good luck to you .

Because claiming that electric cars are more expensive to run than petrol/diesel cars is just false information and not helpful in any way whatsoever.

[Murger]

There’s gonna be a lot of dormant cars when the country runs out of electricity.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It was in an article in a newspaper I read. I didn't note the specific details but I will have a browse and see what the author based his writing on.

By the way I have ordered a mild hybrid - sadly still not available until.next April - and the battery is 48v. I read, some time back now that the cars with heavy batteries 240v can't be jacked up in case of a flat and a wheel change. Don't know if thats true. Do you?

As someone who's jacked up various cars, SUV's, 4x4s and Vans, I'd suggest that's a false rumour.

[CombatClaret]

There’s gonna be a lot of dormant cars when the country runs out of electricity.

I've got some bad news about oil.

[clarethomer]

Don't let the thread become a place of argument.

The fact is that you can't trust most articles written in the press about the debate of EV v Combustion engine.

If you are a person who works in the area of bangernomics and buys very cheap cars to run in to the ground and just dont spend any more than you absolutely have to on your car - an EV is probably not going to make sense.

If you are a person that wants to buy new every few years and are a badge snob, the combustion engine equivalent may win on both a cost to run and overall cost of ownership basis. It equally may not as there are many variables involved.

You can buy a used EV for £5k and providing you don't need to lots of trips that are more than 60-80 miles a day, easily adapt to an EV.

You can buy a new EV that does 200+miles in one charge for £26k if you are not a badge snob and new EVs coming in at £20k if you dont need the 200mile + range.

The case for what you have is really dependent on a number of factors but what is hard to comprehend to most combustion engine owners is that the change isn't as massive as it may feel to them.

Cost wise - if you can charge from home, its clearly more cost effective than trying to charge on a public network. The last article I read about cost of charging was very flawed. It exagerated the range of an Jaguar F Pace type SUV and exagerated how little it cost to fill it v charging at the most expensive charge network there was.

The reality is that it can be as chaeap to do an average of 3.5 miles for 7.5p today if you can charge from home which is likely to cost 40-80p if you use a public charger.

Whatever works for you and your situation - doesn't mean you're right or wrong.

[Lowbankclaret]

Might not charge it but would go towards it reducing the cost ... we get paid for every kwh we produce regardless of exporting to the grid or using it ... charging an EV would use more of that production and therefore get paid to put power in the car ... We also have Economy 7 so could use cheap night rate electricity, making it even cheaper and keep the battery topped up on cheap rate electricity ...

We wouldn't use our ev for long distance but use the wifes C3 petrol if going over 80 or 90 miles from home ... the EV would be used for every day motoring, these sort of trips are rarer these days ... so its really just shopping trips, doctors etc ... nipping to the recycling ...

So replacing my EPace diesel with an EV (thus saving £510 a year in road tax) and keeping the wifes C3 for further trips makes sense for us ...

Yes I agree, having one of each works for most people I would think.
I have been converted to be a big solar fan, it produces way more than I thought it would.
buying an electric vehicle would work for me, as I now do about 50 miles a week, however the cost of one is just way to much.

[Bosscat]

Yes I agree, having one of each works for most people I would think.
I have been converted to be a big solar fan, it produces way more than I thought it would.
buying an electric vehicle would work for me, as I now do about 50 miles a week, however the cost of one is just way to much.

I know what you mean ... the cost is too much for most ... however I am in the lucky position of being able to trade in a car with a high residual value ... so will be chopping in my car for an EV of similar age and slightly more value so will see the savings kick in immediately.


But please folks looking at some posts on here ... lets not descend into arguments on yet another thread ...

[LAM]

Not read much of the thread, I have little interest in cars.

All I will say getting a full EV for a company car was an absolute no brainer in terms of tax. Now I’m used to the planning that goes with the charging, it’s as happy as Ive ever been with a car (Audi Q4 e tron 40).

[Stayingup]

No I don’t know if that’s true and it wouldn’t be a concern or consideration of mine in any case. I’ve never had a flat tyre that needs jacking in 19 years of driving.

Lucky lad Riley!!!

OK I'm not exactly right on what I said. Thats because I made my choice and I'm not particularly interested.
BUT this is the gist of the article.
Energy prices mean petrol and diesel cars will remian cheaper than electric cars for years!!! It adds that Petrol and diesel cars will remain cheaper to own than electric cars until the second half of this decade due to soaring electricity prices. It goes onbut doesnt give any figures like you did. So I'll leave it at that.

[Stayingup]

As someone who's jacked up various cars, SUV's, 4x4s and Vans, I'd suggest that's a false rumour.

Not what I read but I'm no expert at all. As a matter of interest though how heavy do you think a 240v battery might be? And what did you jack vans up.with?

[Claretitus]

I have a Tesla model3 long range AWD. Only had it since last Dec, and with the 335 mile range, had only ever charged it at home until we went to Wembley in July. I charged it on a Tesla supercharger from nearly empty, to full, just off M4 in Wokingham, and it cost me £34. Not too bad.

[aggi]

The electric car I am looking at has a 67kwh battery - the energy tariff I would move to has an off-peak rate of 7.5/kWh - so £5 for a full charge. The stated range is 240 miles, so let’s say this is an average of 200 miles in reality - that’s 40 miles per pound, or 2.5p per mile. My current ICE car has a range of approximately 300 miles and costs about £90 to fill up currently. That is 3.3 miles per pound. Or 30p per mile.

So how is it more expensive to run an electric car?

The article was about if you had to rely on public chargers (lots of people in terraces, flats, etc don't have a home charging option).

Saying that, I worked out that even charging at home would be more expensive than my current petrol car (averages about 60mpg) without a specific EV tariff.

[Rileybobs]

Lucky lad Riley!!!

OK I'm not exactly right on what I said. Thats because I made my choice and I'm not particularly interested.
BUT this is the gist of the article.
Energy prices mean petrol and diesel cars will remian cheaper than electric cars for years!!! It adds that Petrol and diesel cars will remain cheaper to own than electric cars until the second half of this decade due to soaring electricity prices. It goes onbut doesnt give any figures like you did. So I'll leave it at that.

Fair enough. I just don’t think it’s helpful to make false claims like that. There are enough genuine reasons why electric cars aren’t a viable option for people but clearly the running costs isn’t one of them. Rising energy costs has been a consideration of mine and the cost difference has reduced, but with a home charger and a good energy tariff the saving is vast.

Equally on your point about petrol/diesel cars being cheaper to own this isn’t necessarily the case, it isn’t in my case for example. As pointed out above it depends entirely on the individual’s circumstances.

A point to note, there are some very attractive salary sacrifice EV schemes which can tip the balance.

[ClaretCliff]

Not seen any mention of petrol hybrids on here (perhaps because the thread title is fully electric cars ).
I’ve got a Honda HRV and my wife has a Jazz, both petrol hybrids. I’m getting just under 60 mpg and she is getting over 65 mpg. Not much difference in price from petrol and no worries about range and being unable to find a charger and no cost for installing a home charger. Seems a good middle ground, certainly until pure electric cars come down in price and chargers become more plentiful.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Not what I read but I'm no expert at all. As a matter of interest though how heavy do you think a 240v battery might be? And what did you jack vans up.with?

I've jacked up a fully loaded Citroen relay III ambulance with a standard trolley jack designed for a certain weight, so I could change the wheel.
They have a gross vehicle weight of up to 4 tonnes.

With Tesla's, they come with specialist jack mounting point that slot into holes in the underside of the vehicle and they're the only place you're allowed to jack them up, due to the battery.
Anywhere else and you run the risk of cracking the battery which runs the length of the vehicle underneath.

A Tesla will weigh less than the Citroen Relay III, I've just done a quick search, so they won't be un-jackable because that would then make them unserviceable.

[Lancasterclaret]

From head of BMW service Southern California. Give him a bell.

Nah, I'll take your word for it

Must be localised to his area though, as its certainly not the case anywhere else

[clarethomer]

Screenshot 2022-10-11 at 19.23.05.png (135.69 KiB) Viewed 1688 times

Here is an example of why you can't take articles at face value as its designed to cause debates and clicks etc. There is no story in that it is possible for EVs to still cost 16p per mile less even after this energy crisis.

Charge at home can be done currently at 7.5p per kWh (Im getting it at 5.5p until next year). Most EVs (outside of the SUV ones possibly? - like the etron/ipace etc) will happily average 3.5 miles per kWh across the year. That means the cost per mile is 7.5p divided by 3.5 which is 2.14p per mile cost - not the 9p the article suggests. (EVs suffer with similar efficiency issues as combustion engine cars - your SUV mpg will be lower than a saloon mpg).

If you are someone that relies on charging on the public charging nextwork - you can charge at 66p per kWh which is 18p per mile.

The rates they quote are correct for combustion prices based on average mpgs. It makes a good article to get clicks when you see how triggering this debate can be so why wouldn't you keep the article to a place where it causes shares and clicks etc. as people argue over whats value for money etc.

Other considerations/benefits not mentioned in the article.

1 - Free charging is available at supermarkets and other destinations. You may - or may not be able to fully charge but you can save money and an easy way to lower your costs.

2- When you get the cheaper rates they don't mention in that article - it also allows your household energy costs to reduce too (I run a household of 4 and 2 EVs for £80 a month in total for my electric).

3- The cost of energy probably is less volatile than the cost of petrol/diesel. So 1-2p saving today could be 10-20p saving if prices spike again when production of oil is controlled. It could drop lower of course but its rare that once it goes up by so much, it reduces back after such a period of time.

Again - people make their choices on what is right for them and their situation. EV's are not right for everyone yet.

[Claretitus]

There’s gonna be a lot of dormant cars when the country runs out of electricity.

Or petrol!! Remember when people were panic buying petrol last year? Didn’t have a problem with my EV. Swings and roundabouts, and if you believe we’re running out of either, you’re a fool.

[Bosscat]

I've jacked up a fully loaded Citroen relay III ambulance with a standard trolley jack designed for a certain weight, so I could change the wheel.
They have a gross vehicle weight of up to 4 tonnes.

With Tesla's, they come with specialist jack mounting point that slot into holes in the underside of the vehicle and they're the only place you're allowed to jack them up, due to the battery.
Anywhere else and you run the risk of cracking the battery which runs the length of the vehicle underneath.

A Tesla will weigh less than the Citroen Relay III, I've just done a quick search, so they won't be un-jackable because that would then make them unserviceable.

Jack any car up on a position that isn't the jacking point will probably cause damage GIADJ ... I think the person making the statement that you can't jack up an EV doesn't know his jack from his jill

[clarethomer]

There’s gonna be a lot of dormant cars when the country runs out of electricity.

Can you show me a petrol station that doesnt have a reliance on electricty also?

[jos]

Tempted by one of these, but the shape of the steering wheel puts me off.

https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/m-m ... ights.html

[Tricky Trevor]

Safety: Speed limit cars. With GPS in vehicles no reason we cannot limit cars to the correct speed limit.

I’ve thought this for a while. My sat nav pips every time I go through a lower speed limit sign. Why can’t it regulate my speed automatically?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I’ve thought this for a while. My sat nav pips every time I go through a lower speed limit sign. Why can’t it regulate my speed automatically?

Self driving cars will do that.

The next steps for normal cars in the EU and probably the UK -

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/1035 ... -they-work

If you have one of these limiters that you can choose to ignore and then get caught speeding, I'm going to guess the courts will take a very dim view...

[Tricky Trevor]

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/1035 ... -they-work

Cheers. All news to me was that but I like the idea. Old enough now to not bother with how fast it will go but how much mpg can I get out of her.

[IanMcL]

I’ve thought this for a while. My sat nav pips every time I go through a lower speed limit sign. Why can’t it regulate my speed automatically?

My autopilot does that.

[Nori1958]

I’ve thought this for a while. My sat nav pips every time I go through a lower speed limit sign. Why can’t it regulate my speed automatically?

My adaptive cruise control does that

[brexit]

My autopilot does that.

Don't need a sat nav have a wife

[Bosscat]

Don't need a sat nav have a wife

[clarethomer]

Don't need a sat nav have a wife

I had one of those - was a Wife Wife 510 UK and Ireland.

Tried sending mine back, kept telling me to take a u turn having realised that the next turning was the one we had just passed.

[No Ney Never]

It goes into another discussion.

How about we let cars drive themselves? But then when that happens, we'll be complaining about those.

Not going to happen for a long time.
My leaf is semi autonomous, it has cameras, sensors and radar, relies on road markings for lane alignment.
Where the road markings are not good enough or invisible due to non existence, worn paint, road works, flooding or snow, it alarms out and tells me to take over.
There's no way that you are going to be able to eat breakfast while your car takes you to work anytime soon.

Anyway, in the not too distant future, driving cars on roads will be for common people. I'll take the direct route, lift off from my garage roof in my passenger drone. (I know it's a helicopter, couldn't find a drone emoji)

In case you are wondering, will still need a garage for all the rubbish I seem unable to throw out... just in case!

[Caballo]

Anyway, in the not too distant future, driving cars on roads will be for common people. I'll take the direct route, lift off from my garage roof in my passenger drone. (I know it's a helicopter, couldn't find a drone emoji)

Many a true word spoken in jest, closer to becoming a reality than most will think.

[beddie]

Tempted by one of these, but the shape of the steering wheel puts me off.

https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/m-m ... ights.html

Don’t let the steering wheel put you off. If you can afford one then go for it, it looks awesome.

[Bosscat]

Don’t let the steering wheel put you off. If you can afford one then go for it, it looks awful.

Have corrected it for you Beddie


Only kidding as far as beemers go its not a bad looker

[Stayingup]

Fair enough. I just don’t think it’s helpful to make false claims like that. There are enough genuine reasons why electric cars aren’t a viable option for people but clearly the running costs isn’t one of them. Rising energy costs has been a consideration of mine and the cost difference has reduced, but with a home charger and a good energy tariff the saving is vast.

Equally on your point about petrol/diesel cars being cheaper to own this isn’t necessarily the case, it isn’t in my case for example. As pointed out above it depends entirely on the individual’s circumstances.

A point to note, there are some very attractive salary sacrifice EV schemes which can tip the balance.

The journo who wrote the article I referred to in a broadsheet is an expert who I believe would not make a false claim. I would suspect you saying its not helpful (to who actually?) is because you have bought an EV and you have your agenda.

[Rileybobs]

The journo who wrote the article I referred to in a broadsheet is an expert who I believe would not make a false claim. I would suspect you saying its not helpful (to who actually?) is because you have bought an EV and you have your agenda.

I haven’t bought an EV so I don’t have an agenda. As I’ve mentioned in a previous post I am considering changing to an EV and using a home charger, and the running costs are considerably cheaper - as in ridiculously cheaper. I’ve shown my workings which demonstrate this, whereas you’ve just referred to a journo for a broadsheet without linking the article. So I don’t think your claims are helpful to anyone who may be considering making the change to an EV.

[dsr]

I haven’t bought an EV so I don’t have an agenda. As I’ve mentioned in a previous post I am considering changing to an EV and using a home charger, and the running costs are considerably cheaper - as in ridiculously cheaper. I’ve shown my workings which demonstrate this, whereas you’ve just referred to a journo for a broadsheet without linking the article. So I don’t think your claims are helpful to anyone who may be considering making the change to an EV.

You're defining "running costs" as the variable cost of going from A to B, Stayingup's unquoted journalist is using "running costs" as meaning the whole cost of running the car including fuel, RFL, insurance, and the cost of buying the thing in the first place. Both are correct definitions, but they aren't comparable with each other.

Neither of you becomes "wrong" just because you are using different definitions of running costs. You're both right, but you aren't answering the same question.

Now put it to bed, please?

[Rileybobs]

How do you know what Stayingup’s unquoted journalist is meaning? Stayingup claimed;

’I haven't read this thread but I read last weekend that due to cost of electricty it is now more expensive to run an EV than a petrol car.’

This refers to electricity costs and petrol, no other running costs - so I think it is fair to assume that was the claim. Clearly, as the boards biggest Luddite, you are - as always - very entrenched in your view and are unwilling to accept evidence that may be contradictory to it.

And no, I won’t put anything to bed just because you’re uncomfortable reading it. Stayingup responded to my post from more than 24 hours ago and I’m perfectly entitled to reply. If you want the discussion to go to bed then maybe stop responding to it, or just don’t read it?!

[dsr]

How do you know what Stayingup’s unquoted journalist is meaning? Stayingup claimed;

’I haven't read this thread but I read last weekend that due to cost of electricty it is now more expensive to run an EV than a petrol car.’

This refers to electricity costs and petrol, no other running costs - so I think it is fair to assume that was the claim. Clearly, as the boards biggest Luddite, you are - as always - very entrenched in your view and are unwilling to accept evidence that may be contradictory to it.

And no, I won’t put anything to bed just because you’re uncomfortable reading it. Stayingup responded to my post from more than 24 hours ago and I’m perfectly entitled to reply. If you want the discussion to go to bed then maybe stop responding to it, or just don’t read it?!

If your argument is reduced to "You are wrong and I will call you rude names", then of course you must be right, you have won the argument, I accept there can be no two meanings to this subject and there is no point talking to you about it.

[Lancasterclaret]

If your argument is reduced to "You are wrong and I will call you rude names", then of course you must be right, you have won the argument, I accept there can be no two meanings to this subject and there is no point talking to you about it.

Just a reminder that I get loads of s**t for asking for people to back up thier opinions on a message board

This thread being a classic of the genre, in which people waffle on without providing any evidence that they aren't just making stuff up

Its frustrating, and annoying, and there isn't any need for it

You have strong opinions about something?

Then you must have something to back that up surely?

So link it on here

No problem

We might still disagree, but at least we are both coming from a position in which we both know where we get the information from

[Nori1958]

Just a reminder that I get loads of s**t for asking for people to back up thier opinions on a message board

This thread being a classic of the genre, in which people waffle on without providing any evidence that they aren't just making stuff up

Its frustrating, and annoying, and there isn't any need for it

You have strong opinions about something?

Then you must have something to back that up surely?

So link it on here

No problem

We might still disagree, but at least we are both coming from a position in which we both know where we get the information from

I look forward to you providing a link everytime you give opinion on the Russian thread.
People read things, hear things etc etc, they cannot, and should not have to, provide a link to the source.

[Lancasterclaret]

No idea what you are saying mate, as you are on the blocked list

As you are on the blocked list, I'm guessing that it is nothing worth reading

Just so you know!