ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

[Chester Perry]

I'm one who placed a lot of confidence in "no charge = no new loan."

Yes, there was inconsistency in some of charges being recorded as "satisfied in full" and 2 others not shown as any change.

We now know there is a new loan - but the lender isn't named.

Interesting trying to speculate about how everything financial works.

I have had a discussion with somebody who suggested that the loan may be provided by Macquarie as they have outstanding 'Charges' with Burnley Football and Athletic Club Limited - but I pointed out that each of those charges were for declared transactions - the outstanding instalments on the Wood, Collins and Pope transfers respectively. Not to mention that you would expect Charges on the same group entities that MSD had them on.

Incidentally, anyone else surprised by how low the net proceeds of the Wood and Collins factoring as declared - £13.874m - are?

[Chester Perry]

I have had a discussion with somebody who suggested that the loan may be provided by Macquarie as they have outstanding 'Charges' with Burnley Football and Athletic Club Limited - but I pointed out that each of those charges were for declared transactions - the outstanding instalments on the Wood, Collins and Pope transfers respectively. Not to mention that you would expect Charges on the same group entities that MSD had them on.

Incidentally, anyone else surprised by how low the net proceeds of the Wood and Collins factoring as declared - £13.874m - are?

So just actually read the Athletic article - Macquarie loan held by ALK not the club is intriguing - though it appears that the club will still be servicing the interest - how on earth have they found that out

[ClaretPete001]

The declared balance of loans held by CVHL, no declaration of monies being borrowed post date and understanding that £37m of stage payments were paid last year along with £2.7m of cash paid to small shareholders for transferring their shares to the ownership group

Fair enough, but I think you would accept yourself that it was this kind of post-hoc theorising that led many on here to assume the MSD loan had been paid off without further loans being taken contrary to all reasonable business assumptions and in the event the fact that they hadn't been....

So, we all assumed that the £10 million post reporting monies paid to CVHL in last year's accounts was for the small shareholder to transfer their shares to the ownership group.

What are the £37 million stage payments you refer to...? If you don't mind indulging me, it is a big claim to suggest that ALK have invested £27 million when they appear not to have the personal means to so, or the business inclination or the business need.

£27 million from personal funds in billionaire territory. Of course, you might be suggesting that ALK have financed it in other ways but I can't see much evidence of it.

[Paul Waine]

Incidentally, anyone else surprised by how low the net proceeds of the Wood and Collins factoring as declared - £13.874m - are?

It will be a week before I can have a good review of accounts.

Re Wood and Collins, based other clubs' accounts I'd expect that money owed on buying Collins is deducted before BFC receive net.

[Chester Perry]

Fair enough, but I think you would accept yourself that it was this kind of post-hoc theorising that led many on here to assume the MSD loan had been paid off without further loans being taken contrary to all reasonable business assumptions and in the event the fact that they hadn't been....

So, we all assumed that the £10 million post reporting monies paid to CVHL in last year's accounts was for the small shareholder to transfer their shares to the ownership group.

What are the £37 million stage payments you refer to...? If you don't mind indulging me, it is a big claim to suggest that ALK have invested £27 million when they appear not to have the personal means to so, or the business inclination or the business need.

£27 million from personal funds in billionaire territory. Of course, you might be suggesting that ALK have financed it in other ways but I can't see much evidence of it.

The takeover deal was for £170m

- Freight Investor Holdings (John B's company and a significant shareholder in BFC) declared that the takeover transaction would consist of 5 payments ending in 2023

we can trace the first payment as being roughly £98m from funds in KCL on December 30 2020

I have had it confirmed (albeit by hearsay)that September 2021 saw a stage payment of £14m - the borrowings of CVHL in the previous accounts (£37m) balance this number (£23m being used in the first payment alongside £65m from MSD and £10m of ALK/VSL monies)

My same source confirmed £37m was paid in two stage payments in 2022 leaving £21m outstanding to be paid this year.

The sale of shares by small share holders came to a little under £5.4m split equally between cash and club credit

I have been declaring all these numbers for a long time now - the new accounts show that the bearer of who paid what has changed from the previous estimates which was based on known practice to that point.

It is only right and fair that I re-declare based on the up to date information at hand

[Chester Perry]

It will be a week before I can have a good review of accounts.

Re Wood and Collins, based other clubs' accounts I'd expect that money owed on buying Collins is deducted before BFC receive net.

re Collins I was already using that assumption - possibly £9m fee outstanding and maybe a conditional payment on appearances and full International cap though I would have thought they would have been paid as they occurred not upon sale

The sell-on clause would have come out of the cash upfront payment from my understanding

[Chester Perry]

So just actually read the Athletic article - Macquarie loan held by ALK not the club is intriguing - though it appears that the club will still be servicing the interest - how on earth have they found that out

What is particularly interesting about the Charge resting with ALK is that - if we use the Derby County example, and it seems appropriate - it is very likely that the members of ALK have issued guarantees and put up significant personal assets as security for those guarantees to Macquarie.

If The Athletic's information is correct, and my assertions about owner funds being used to by shares are correct (we have no certainty on either) then we are seeing a real step change in the way ALK/VSL are investing in the club. One that means they are exposing themselves to a greater share of risk they have employed in the takeover. The club will still be servicing the loan and likely bearing the brunt of any repayments that arise in this scenario, but I see it as a welcome change.

The only question I have is, with the MSD loan now repaid - what has happened with the related £65m at CVHL? given ALK have ostensibly taken on the circa £40m of the new loan

[ClaretPete001]

The takeover deal was for £170m

- Freight Investor Holdings (John B's company and a significant shareholder in BFC) declared that the takeover transaction would consist of 5 payments ending in 2023

we can trace the first payment as being roughly £98m from funds in KCL on December 30 2020

I have had it confirmed (albeit by hearsay)that September 2021 saw a stage payment of £14m - the borrowings of CVHL in the previous accounts (£37m) balance this number (£23m being used in the first payment alongside £65m from MSD and £10m of ALK/VSL monies)

My same source confirmed £37m was paid in two stage payments in 2022 leaving £21m outstanding to be paid this year.

The sale of shares by small share holders came to a little under £5.4m split equally between cash and club credit

I have been declaring all these numbers for a long time now - the new accounts show that the bearer of who paid what has changed from the previous estimates which was based on known practice to that point.

It is only right and fair that I re-declare based on the up to date information at hand

If we put the small shareholders to one side because most thought that was accounted for by the £10 million post-reporting payment in the '21 accounts to CHVL from Burnley Holdings. In the event only £5 million was paid...!

The £170 million was accounted for by £37 million from the club's cash ('21 accounts) and a £65 million loan from MSD also evidenced in the club's accounts, which was the £102 million in the '21 accounts.

All the above is clearly evidenced in the accounts.

The balance of the £170 million loan was allegedly a £68 million deal with the former owners. It was originally assumed that ALK had put in £15 million based upon what I don't know but that is what was cited.

The only thing really unaccounted for is the £68 million to the former owners. Is there anything in the public domain, which explains what has happened to that...?

[ClaretPete001]

What is particularly interesting about the Charge resting with ALK is that - if we use the Derby County example, and it seems appropriate - it is very likely that the members of ALK have issued guarantees and put up significant personal assets as security for those guarantees to Macquarie.

If The Athletic's information is correct, and my assertions about owner funds being used to by shares are correct (we have no certainty on either) then we are seeing a real step change in the way ALK/VSL are investing in the club. One that means they are exposing themselves to a greater share of risk they have employed in the takeover. The club will still be servicing the loan and likely bearing the brunt of any repayments that arise in this scenario, but I see it as a welcome change.

The only question I have is, with the MSD loan now repaid - what has happened with the related £65m at CVHL? given ALK have ostensibly taken on the circa £40m of the new loan

Have you read the accounts? As far as I can see they reference the £40 million

[Chester Perry]

Have you read the accounts? As far as I can see they reference the £40 million

in a way they have - though that is not what I was asking. I was wondering, with the fact with the MSD loan being cleared - what has been done by way of using that to change the debt position re CVHL and the club as of Mid November last year not the July 30 2022 year end.

Given the loan has been taken out by ALK - I am assuming, perhaps illustrating my naivety in these things, they have loaned it to CVHL who have used that to make a repayment to Burnley FC Holdings who then used it to pay off MSD. CVHL still has the same overall related debt holding, but the balance owed to the club could be substantially reduced, even with the club still picking up the responsibility for serving the new loan, for however long that is, given it does not have a publicly declared end-date.

[aggi]

in a way they have - though that is not what I was asking. I was wondering, with the fact with the MSD loan being cleared - what has been done by way of using that to change the debt position re CVHL and the club as of Mid November last year not the July 30 2022 year end.

Given the loan has been taken out by ALK - I am assuming, perhaps illustrating my naivety in these things, they have loaned it to CVHL who have used that to make a repayment to Burnley FC Holdings who then used it to pay off MSD. CVHL still has the same overall related debt holding, but the balance owed to the club could be substantially reduced, even with the club still picking up the responsibility for serving the new loan, for however long that is, given it does not have a publicly declared end-date.

The loan is with the football club, not ALK

[Vegas Claret]

are we in decent shape ?

[Chester Perry]

The loan is with the football club, not ALK

thank you

[RVclaret]

The loan is with the football club, not ALK

Wonder why the Athletic writers are suggesting the other way round then.

[aggi]

Wonder why the Athletic writers are suggesting the other way round then.

They don't, I think someone has just misread the article (unless it has since been changed). It's phrased badly but clearly means the club, not ALK.

That should half this season, although it will be the club paying the interest as ALK has put the Macquarie loan on its books, not the parent company’s

[Father Jack]

We know the 3 on the right.
But can anyone tell me who the 2 on the left are?
Back left features heavily in the documentary trailer “we’re going to make so much money”.
Doesn’t look like Dave Checketts to me.
Front left doesn’t look like Antonio Davila either.

[Chester Perry]

We know the 3 on the right.
But can anyone tell me who the 2 on the left are?
Back left features heavily in the documentary trailer “we’re going to make so much money”.
Doesn’t look like Dave Checketts to me.
Front left doesn’t look like Antonio Davila either.

Morgan Edwards behind John Dewey - that is the first time I have seen all 5 of ALK in a single picture

[Wokingclaret]

Dave Checketts in this photo

https://twitter.com/AlanPaceBFC/status/ ... 31/photo/4

[NewClaret]

Morgan Edwards behind John Dewey - that is the first time I have seen all 5 of ALK in a single picture

I knew you’d know CP. Who are Morgan Edward’s and John Dewey?

Partners of ALK I assume? Not sure I’ve ever heard of them before in all the time reading these threads!

[ClaretPete001]

I knew you’d know CP. Who are Morgan Edward’s and John Dewey?

Partners of ALK I assume? Not sure I’ve ever heard of them before in all the time reading these threads!

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... ey-3082651

[ClaretPete001]

Another interesting aspect of the accounts is that they suggest that had we not got promoted MSD could have claimed three quarters of the second year's parachute money.

[NewClaret]

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... ey-3082651

Thanks ClaretPete.

That explains the Macquarie link then!

[Chester Perry]

Dave Checketts in this photo

https://twitter.com/AlanPaceBFC/status/ ... 31/photo/4

I wouldn't be surprised if there are 3 or 4 more investors in ALK/VSL in that picture - I have been trying to find a picture of Antonio Davila Parra (he is a bit of a ghost online) for quite some time now so I cannot tell if he is there -hoping someone else has more info

The guy directly behind Alan Pace is the club COO Mark Thompson - he used to work for Castore so it will be interesting to see what happens with the next kit deal (summer of 2024 i think)

[randomclaret2]

I wouldn't be surprised if there are 3 or 4 more investors in ALK/VSL in that picture - I have been trying to find a picture of Antonio Davila Parra (he is a bit of a ghost online) for quite some time now so I cannot tell if he is there -hoping someone else has more info

The guy directly behind Alan Pace is the club COO Mark Thompson - he used to work for Castore so it will be interesting to see what happens with the next kit deal (summer of 2024 i think)

Hi CP, there's a photo and pen pic of Antonio Davila Parra on the club website, on the Board of Directors page

[Chester Perry]

Hi CP, there's a photo and pen pic of Antonio Davila Parra on the club website, on the Board of Directors page

thank you

[ClaretPete001]

Thanks ClaretPete.

That explains the Macquarie link then!

It does but when you see how onerous the MSD deal was you can only presume no one else was interested at the time.

I guess last summers trading changed the financial picture sufficient to make the club more attractive to lenders.

[NewClaret]

The guy directly behind Alan Pace is the club COO Mark Thompson - he used to work for Castore so it will be interesting to see what happens with the next kit deal (summer of 2024 i think)

Didn’t know that CP.

I would be absolutely made up with Castore. Think they’ve done some fantastic kits (albeit very clean/plain and simple) for Wolves, Villa, Newcastle.

I like a bit more of a retro/edgy design like this years home kit, myself, but would be very happy with that.

Umbro have been a mixed bag. Some greats, a few shockers and very cheap looking kits so really hoping we look elsewhere - although a few quality kits this season might change my mind.

[ClaretPete001]

Another interesting aspect of the accounts is the nearly £3 million in lease and HP costs- to give it some context it equates to almost 20 per cent of Rover's entire turnover, which gives some indication of the difference between the PL and the EFL.

I can't see a note to the accounts to explain what these are but that doesn't mean it's not there.

[aggi]

Another interesting aspect of the accounts is the nearly £3 million in lease and HP costs- to give it some context it equates to almost 20 per cent of Rover's entire turnover, which gives some indication of the difference between the PL and the EFL.

I can't see a note to the accounts to explain what these are but that doesn't mean it's not there.

If you're referring to note 20 (in the group accounts) that is future obligations rather than current year costs.

Looks like it relates to the land and buildings additions during the year.

[NewClaret]

If you're referring to note 20 (in the group accounts) that is future obligations rather than current year costs.

Looks like it relates to the land and buildings additions during the year.

Land and buildings additions?

[aggi]

Land and buildings additions?

This stuff. Doesn't necessarily need to be new land or buildings. Can be improvements/additions to the stadium, training ground, etc.

Screenshot 2023-05-10 115908.jpg (147.68 KiB) Viewed 2007 times

[ClaretPete001]

Thanks for the reply Aggi.

£3 million pounds is an awful lot of money to spend on improvements.

[Chester Perry]

Thanks for the reply Aggi.

£3 million pounds is an awful lot of money to spend on improvements.

It has been one of our lesser spends in the last decade - it has to be constant or you end up with the pitiful state you see things becoming at Old Trafford, Ewood and if stories emanating from Preston are anything to go by Deepdale as well,

[BurnleyFC]

Ewood Park is an absolute dump now.

Even if by some minor miracle they did get promoted in the next couple of seasons, you’d have to imagine it’d take a fortune to bring their ground up to scratch.

[NewClaret]

Thanks Aggi. I imagine a lot of that was the LED lighting?

[123EasyasBFC]

JJ Watt alluding he’s going to be trying to help with commercial and investors states side

[ClaretPete001]

It has been one of our lesser spends in the last decade - it has to be constant or you end up with the pitiful state you see things becoming at Old Trafford, Ewood and if stories emanating from Preston are anything to go by Deepdale as well,

Indeed but 3 million quid is a lot. It equates to a quarter of PNEs entire turnover and is the same as their match day revenue.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Ewood Park is an absolute dump now.

Even if by some minor miracle they did get promoted in the next couple of seasons, you’d have to imagine it’d take a fortune to bring their ground up to scratch.

I tried having this chat with a Rovers fan on twitter, absolutely refused to believe that Ewood wouldn't meet PL standards.

I even mentioned things like VAR but he still wouldn't have it.

[ClaretPete001]

I tried having this chat with a Rovers fan on twitter, absolutely refused to believe that Ewood wouldn't meet PL standards.

I even mentioned things like VAR but he still wouldn't have it.

Indeed but Rovers turnover is £16 million - their wages are £25 million.

The financial black hole you drop into once out of the Prem' is enormous.

Spending £3 million on Ewood is just a non-starter.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Indeed but Rovers turnover is £16 million - their wages are £25 million.

The financial black hole you drop into once out of the Prem' is enormous.

Spending £3 million on Ewood is just a non-starter.

Oh I know that, but he just seemed to think that time stands still when it comes to stadia and PL standards.
It was very odd tbh, but I realised early on he was never going to get it

[aggi]

An interesting snippet from the article in the Athletic about JJ Watt:

After he became aware of a potential investment opportunity in Burnley in January, the following month he and Kealia had a meeting with deal-maker Damien O’Donohoe of IKON Capital, at his home during SuperBowl week. O’Donohoe is a friend of chairman Alan Pace, and has been advising him and Burnley FC.

The B-IKONIC website is pretty buzzword heavy http://b-ikonic.com/

[Taffy on the wing]

are we in decent shape ?

Don't expect an answer to that...

[Chester Perry]

An interesting snippet from the article in the Athletic about JJ Watt:

After he became aware of a potential investment opportunity in Burnley in January, the following month he and Kealia had a meeting with deal-maker Damien O’Donohoe of IKON Capital, at his home during SuperBowl week. O’Donohoe is a friend of chairman Alan Pace, and has been advising him and Burnley FC.

The B-IKONIC website is pretty buzzword heavy http://b-ikonic.com/

I am not the only one who picked up on that then

[Vegas Claret]

Don't expect an answer to that...

I did actually, seemingly not getting one

[Big Vinny K]

I tried having this chat with a Rovers fan on twitter, absolutely refused to believe that Ewood wouldn't meet PL standards.

I even mentioned things like VAR but he still wouldn't have it.

I think from memory meeting the requirements that Sky insist on in terms of facilities was around £1m - it may be more now.
I thought you also needed under soil heating too and then there will be other stuff like VAR.
A total figure of around £3m to meet PL standards seems pretty accurate.

When you look at Luton’s ground it’s closer to non league standard than Premier League. Presumably if a team like Luton went up they would be given more time to get up to standard as you would not think work needed would be possible in the 2 months summer break they would have.

Was the rovers fan the same fella who said on TV we weren’t that good and had been lucky to score a lot of late goals ?!!!!

[aggi]

are we in decent shape ?

Probably, for the moment.

[Vegas Claret]

Probably, for the moment.

cheers Aggi, I live in the moment so that will do for me

[Vegas Claret]

I tried having this chat with a Rovers fan on twitter

that was you mistake

[arise_sir_charge]

I think from memory meeting the requirements that Sky insist on in terms of facilities was around £1m - it may be more now.
I thought you also needed under soil heating too and then there will be other stuff like VAR.
A total figure of around £3m to meet PL standards seems pretty accurate.

When you look at Luton’s ground it’s closer to non league standard than Premier League. Presumably if a team like Luton went up they would be given more time to get up to standard as you would not think work needed would be possible in the 2 months summer break they would have.

Was the rovers fan the same fella who said on TV we weren’t that good and had been lucky to score a lot of late goals ?!!!!

I read somewhere that Luton are looking at the thick end of £10m to meet the initial requirements.

A lot of the cost is around the foreign tv coverage. If you recall we had to replace the flood lights for tv purposes, we had to install the cabling that allowed tv companies to just come and plug in and be ready to go, there is all the press box stuff the additional advertising stuff which Uk tainted his all aimed at a tv audience etc.

It costs a fortune and no way in earth will Ewood Park be anywhere near up to standard after so long away from the top table. Luton having never been there and having a dump of a ground are miles away.

[Chester Perry]

are we in decent shape ?

the picture we have been given is for the most part 9 months out of date and actually only reflected a snapshot at a point of time

It paints a much better picture than was imagined in the media and by opposition fans and confirms what most people on this board assumed - which was we would certainly be fine for a year outside the Premier League and that ALK/VSL had the capability to navigate a path through the imagined mire and actual challenges.

The contributions of at least £27m from the ownership group to meeting their share purchase commitments has been greatly beneficial to the clubs ability to meet some of the challenges that they passed onto it and in refreshing the squad

Factoring players to help meet those costs appeared expensive - £1.366 for the Chris Wood (1 outstanding fee payment of £12.5m) and Nick Pope (3 outstanding fee payments totalling £7m) netting just £13.874m after outstanding acquisition obligations were met - but as others will say in present value terms that may actually be profitable when we consider the bank base rate now has risen 12 times in successive months and inflation is at 10%

The club has thus far contributed at least £96m to the takeover of which over £46m is directly related to financing with MSD and Macquarie (if we believe The Athletic) - a new fixed interest payment of almost £3m pa will make budgeting easier

Reports after the failed bid for KV Kortrijk suggest that the ownership group are looking to keep as much money as possible in the club (at least in the short term) which I hope means that they are hoping to meet as least some, if not all, of the final stage payment from their own funds. I still expect us to factor Premier League monies with Macquarie in the coming weeks - every promoted club does these days, as do some that have been there a while.

To my mind, the strongest signals for the future have come from the ownership group - use of the own monies together with the tale of them providing security and guarantee for the latest loan tells me that they have much greater confidence now in their enterprise than they did when they embarked upon it

I hold little hope that the CVHL debt will be returned to the club in a way that increases the cash balance, but suspect that the outflows of the first two years will not be repeated over the next two, at least by volume

I said before the results came out that ALK/VSL have shown themselves to be capable, and for now there is no reason to change that.

It has been a fantastical season, but I am mindful of the attitudes of both Sean Dyche and Vincent Kompany in not being too up or down in the immediate aftermath of singular events, moments or results, it is a lesson many supporters would do well to learn from