TRAFFORD

[taio]

Wasn’t even remotely close to it

Aye, because he was impeded

[Newcastleclaret93]

He wouldn’t have got there even if he wasn’t “blocked off”

[Nonayforever]

Be interested which way you think he should go now, and muric or no muric. ?

Common sense says playing with Muric and Cullen similar to last season wasn't working and won't work because of the different players we now have.
I also think playing it out long from the goalkeeper ( not midfield) won't work because we don't have a strong midfield compared to other teams.
I'm presuming that VK is playing the least dangerous option.
For what it's worth, I would have stuck with my principles and tried to get players in who could play to my preferred system ( VKs principles obviously)

[CoolClaret]

I think they’re a fair barometer. We scored one against a poor Forrest side, none against a reasonable Everton and none against Spurs who are a top eight side.

The chasm in quality is there whether you choose to see it or not. Taking evertons deduction out of it, the teams that finished 1st and second in the championship would now be 7 points adrift of safety (in our case having played two games more).

We’ve seen Naaarwich do something similar a few years back in decimating the championship then turned over every week in the PL trying to continue attacking teams. VK has clearly tried something different but the gap is still there, albeit with an ill advised injection of 45 wingers.

Chuck Muric in though and see if our Championship winning football will then turnover PL teams. I doubt it but then I’m increasingly watching from a position of apathy with each passing game.

I just think using a sample size of three games to say one goal is a bit strange, considering two were away from home with rotated sides playing against two decent outfits.

Just think it's a noticeable difference - and we were better than Norwich, imo.

[taio]

He wouldn’t have got there even if he wasn’t “blocked off”

Pure speculation and not particularly relevant. You don't think he would whereas I do, but one thing for sure is he'd be in a better position if he hadn't been blocked off/fouled.

[KRBFC]

I do love how people are now pretending Muric is some big physical box demanding keeper who’s great at coming for crosses. Just to slag off Trafford.

Muric is the biggest headless chicken flapper I have ever seen, pure entertainment mind but he can’t catch a cold either.

[quoonbeatz]

He wouldn’t have got there even if he wasn’t “blocked off”

Lol at "blocked off'.

[CoolClaret]

I do love how people are now pretending Muric is some big physical box demanding keeper who’s great at coming for crosses. Just to slag off Trafford.

Muric is the biggest headless chicken flapper I have ever seen, pure entertainment mind but he can’t catch a cold either.

Complete b0llocks.

[Barlickclaret]

Might aswell delete this thread now, and open another when he does it again next game.

[daveisaclaret]

To be blunt, there is nobody on here who has said Trafford was at fault for Luton's goal who you couldn't have predicted ahead of time with absolute confidence. I don't think he's very good but everyone who has blamed that goal on him is very transparent.

[Robbie_painter]

Complete b0llocks.

For once he is absolutely spot on.

[bumba]

And if he isn't fouled, he does make it his and with ease. He'd judged the flight well and was about to jump for it. He'd have claimed the ball no problem at all if he hadn't been deliberately blocked by the forward. It looks a worse decision from the officials every time you see it.

That foul is given at every level of football, week in week out, and everyone knows that.

It's also the type of challenge we've been moaning about for years when they go against us saying keepers get to much protection.
No way is he taking that ball with ease, even the pundits saying he was fouled have said he had misjudged the flight of the ball.
He would have been no where near it but that's irrelevant it's all about the challenge and he crumbled he should have taken Adebayo out to get that ball.

[bumba]

I do love how people are now pretending Muric is some big physical box demanding keeper who’s great at coming for crosses. Just to slag off Trafford.

Muric is the biggest headless chicken flapper I have ever seen, pure entertainment mind but he can’t catch a cold either.

Muric who within the first 5 minutes of Everton away came and claimed about three crosses with ease against one of the most physical crossing teams in the league?
Muric comes and either punches that ball taking everything with it or he stays on his line, no way does he crumbles like Trafford did.
Muric isn't even the biggest flapper at our club right now let alone that you've ever seen.

[KRBFC]

Muric who within the first 5 minutes of Everton away came and claimed about three crosses with ease against one of the most physical crossing teams in the league?
Muric comes and either punches that ball taking everything with it or he stays on his line, no way does he crumbles like Trafford did.
Muric isn't even the biggest flapper at our club right now let alone that you've ever seen.

Yeah the same Muric who conceded 3 in that game including from a corner. The guy was an absolute bag of nerves at sat pieces last season and the only reason you’re such a huge super fanboy all of a sudden is because he’s not being picked so you can dig at VK. Funny that ain’t it? The only thing positive you’ve said all season is support Muric

[KRBFC]

Complete b0llocks.

I watched him every game last season, the guys a headless chicken in goal especially at set pieces. He’s exciting when we’re winning but I would imagine the excitement would wear off when he’s throwing them in his own nets at this level.

There’s absolutely no doubt how brilliant he is on the ball and I do think he became more confident at catching the ball last season but he’s got a screw loose, at any given moment he’s prone to throwing in a clanger.

[vinrogue]

I like Trafford, I like Muric, one is younger and inexperienced in the Championship but experienced in Div 1, both are inexperienced in the PL. One has played for his country at Under 21 level one has played for his country at big boys level. Both make mistakes. The choice is simple ....... the Manager makes it

[warksclaret]

If Muric is as good as some on here post, then surely someone is going to notice his vast potential and pay us a significant fee.Still over two weeks in the window. Does it not surprise people on here we do not appear to have even received an approach to loan him.Now we are out of all cups he is unlikely to play again this season, and I am certain our club will listen to offers -my feeling is we wont get any.

[CoolClaret]

I watched him every game last season, the guys a headless chicken in goal especially at set pieces. He’s exciting when we’re winning but I would imagine the excitement would wear off when he’s throwing them in his own nets at this level.

There’s absolutely no doubt how brilliant he is on the ball and I do think he became more confident at catching the ball last season but he’s got a screw loose, at any given moment he’s prone to throwing in a clanger.

We conceded 35 goals in the entire season and he was PFA Champ keeper of the year.

That is not what a 'headless chicken' keeper does, is it?

[bumba]

Yeah the same Muric who conceded 3 in that game including from a corner. The guy was an absolute bag of nerves at sat pieces last season and the only reason you’re such a huge super fanboy all of a sudden is because he’s not being picked so you can dig at VK. Funny that ain’t it? The only thing positive you’ve said all season is support Muric

Why would it be to dig at VK? Strange.
Nobody expects a keeper to come for every cross but if they come they have to take the ball. Muric was a bag of nerves until Sheff Utd away then he changed so don't say it was all season.
As for the positives there hasn't been many to shout about this season has there?
Your just clinging to the 'project' because it's what you wanted but this season has been a massive failure.
I'm not a Muric fan boy I've said many times I'd even try Vigouroux over JT at the moment, if have liked an upgrade in the summer but right now Muric is our best keeper so should play.
We wouldn't be saying stick with somebody in another position if they was somebody sat on the bench who's better

[Leisure]

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/240 ... g-players/

[Robbie_painter]

We conceded 35 goals in the entire season and he was PFA Champ keeper of the year.

That is not what a 'headless chicken' keeper does, is it?

For balance we could’ve had Mark Kendall in the nets last season and still won the league.In most games Muric had very little to do.

[bumba]

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/240 ... g-players/

There's also another list of 25 that he doesn't make on another website yet a 20 year old goalkeeper from City does that I'd never heard of.
I was told it means nothing, so I presume this means nothing too.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

If he’s such a world beater why didn’t Man City keep him?

Project league one at this rate

[South West Claret.]

If he’s such a world beater why didn’t Man City keep him?

Project league one at this rate

I suppose because they seem to have a bottomless pit of money to buy just about any player they like, so if he does turn out to be a really top keeper they will simply outbid any competitor.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

I suppose because they seem to have a bottomless pit of money to buy just about any player they like, so if he does turn out to be a really top keeper they will simply outbid any competitor.

Or saw a mug come along and thought let’s get his pants down before he finds out!

That’ll be £19m please

[Targetman]

Or saw a mug come along and thought let’s get his pants down before he finds out!

That’ll be £19m please

And yet they insisted on a 'buy back clause'?

[Holtyclaret]

If Muric is as good as some on here post, then surely someone is going to notice his vast potential and pay us a significant fee.Still over two weeks in the window. Does it not surprise people on here we do not appear to have even received an approach to loan him.Now we are out of all cups he is unlikely to play again this season, and I am certain our club will listen to offers -my feeling is we wont get any.

He’s an injury or suspension from starting every game. We need two ‘number 1’ keepers so if he left he’d have to be replaced. Vignouroux is very much the third keeper.

Muric will be with us at least until the summer and will have his chance at some stage this season.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

And yet they insisted on a 'buy back clause'?

When you rob someone in broad daylight you’ve got to leave them feeling better about themselves

It would be hilarious if he was bought back for £60m maybe those new Labour spin doctors can make it happen.

[Targetman]

When you rob someone in broad daylight you’ve got to leave them feeling better about themselves

Have you seen the figure agreed for the buy back clause?

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Have you seen the figure agreed for the buy back clause?

The most stupid thing I have heard all year , second to going to see the titanic in a Bath tub.

[Nori1958]

If he’s such a world beater why didn’t Man City keep him?

Project league one at this rate

Who sold us the world beater Muric?

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

It’s not too late for VK to report the bald rogue trader to Anne Robinson is it?

[IanMcL]

The point I was trying to make is that it isn't a given that he's going to blossom into some world-class keeper like somethink it's a sure fire right of passage.

I didn't understand the signing at the time nor the persistent inclusion. I think we're notably a worse outfit when we play Traff

I agree. He has the potential, however, makes the decisions of youth, not experience. When the agility diminishes, the positioning and know how must have been learned. His saves at present are the 'agile' variety.

His presence is lame.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

I agree. He has the potential, however, makes the decisions of youth, not experience. When the agility diminishes, the positioning and know how must have been learned. His saves at present are the 'agile' variety.

His presence is lame.

He’s going to cost Vk his job Ian at some point next season if he persists with him. He’s the worst keeper I have seen play for us in my lifetime.

[IanMcL]

Having watched the Highlights on the club site, my view from Longside Upper eas borne out on first showing. The striker takes a step back and blocks the oncoming Trafford, allowing an easy header for his mate.

The view from the rear was less convincing. Trafford in the wrong place and falling short, clattering into an opponent who was moving towards him.

Poor from Trafford, who should ve smashing his way through to the ball, if he is coming at all.

A foul for sure but the rear view and the poor position probably led to the VAR award.

The ref, on field, saw the player block, so that should have been a FK to Burnley.

[CoolClaret]

For balance we could’ve had Mark Kendall in the nets last season and still won the league.In most games Muric had very little to do.

Not true whatsoever

He had 'very little to do' because teams couldn't get the ball off us and Aro had a big part in that.

Literally every manager that played us alluded to that - we just passed teams to death and moved the ball quickly.

Look at some of the positions he took up in possession and the speed of which he passes, it's chalk and cheese.

[Swizzlestick]

Not true whatsoever

He had 'very little to do' because teams couldn't get the ball off us and Aro had a big part in that.

Literally every manager that played us alluded to that - we just passed teams to death and moved the ball quickly.

Look at some of the positions he took up in possession and the speed of which he passes, it's chalk and cheese.

Corberon’s post match comments last season basically said this. That it was incredibly difficult to press us not least due to the keeper quickly distributing and his general involvement in the play. Let’s have it right, the challenge would have been greater in the PL, but to ditch him for JT has been a critical error imo.

[TomtheClaret]

Weak mug.

Who is defending him now?

Weak poster. Troll. Sit yourself down, keyboard warrior

[CoolClaret]

Corberon’s post match comments last season basically said this. That it was incredibly difficult to press us not least due to the keeper quickly distributing and his general involvement in the play. Let’s have it right, the challenge would have been greater in the PL, but to ditch him for JT has been a critical error imo.

Yep -

I mean, I'm not as daft as thinking change the goalie and we're in the top half or anything, I just think he's best suited for our side and chance to win points.

On Corberan/play style last season - football is complimentary. It is not one off bits of play or highlight reels, it's how the collective works together.

Anyone critically watching can see how critical our keeper was to our dominant play last year and it isn't just the passing ability - it's the vision/speed of thought, positioning and touch.

[aggi]

...
from a Carlton Morris point of view he sees it as perfectly good goal, why should it not be given. ...

It was a remarkably muted celebration for an injury time equaliser against a relegation rival.

[123EasyasBFC]

Trafford had one of his better games in Friday, not his shot stopping because that’s been good all season but everything else was good on Friday but he just made one poor decision at the end of the game to try and claim the ball and it cost us, yes he was fouled but it all could have been avoided

[Shaggy]

Trafford had one of his better games in Friday, not his shot stopping because that’s been good all season but everything else was good on Friday but he just made one poor decision at the end of the game to try and claim the ball and it cost us, yes he was fouled but it all could have been avoided

For context he missed as many crosses as he claimed.

Also we have conceded more long range goals than anyone in the league.

[RVclaret]

If we are going to get some stats out then worth highlighting Trafford is in the top 1/3 of keepers in the entire division for shot stopping. The specific metric for this is PsxG - GA (Post shot expected goals - goals actually conceded). This metric looks at the difficulty of the shot (where it’s going in the net) and how ‘expected’ it is to be saved or not. So it’s far more accurate than ‘we’ve conceded long range shots’. So a top third shot stopper in the Prem at 21 years old in a team 19th. Okay, what else? Top third for ‘Crosses stopped’ in the league (CoolClaret likes this one). Interesting stuff.

[alwaysaclaret]

Common sense says playing with Muric and Cullen similar to last season wasn't working and won't work because of the different players we now have.
I also think playing it out long from the goalkeeper ( not midfield) won't work because we don't have a strong midfield compared to other teams.
I'm presuming that VK is playing the least dangerous option.
For what it's worth, I would have stuck with my principles and tried to get players in who could play to my preferred system ( VKs principles obviously)

We still 3 player's who instrumental in the system last season in muric, zaroury and Benson, none of which have had a sustained run together in the team this season we also have o'shea who is effectively thb's replacement, who is as good as thb would have been imo, he wouldn't have been as reliable in the prem. So point being the 2 biggest misses are tella and maatsen, in the end we apparently bid £31.5m for maatsen, an earlier bid of round the £20m mark would have got him imo but instead we chose to dally, and tella was worth every penny of the £20m he eventually went for, however I would still have kept Taylor and swap Taylor and maatsen depending on the opponent. So to summarise everyone said prep season that we needed a spine, and still do. So another unit in centre mid, and a further striker would have done, cos jrod just doesn't cut it anymore, no need to make wholesale changes, he had the nucleus and makings of a decent Premier league side, instead vk has chosen to rip the heart out imo. And to round off if he thought Trafford was a good prospect, then sign him, but loan him to championship to take the next step to continue he's progress.

[alwaysaclaret]

If we are going to get some stats out then worth highlighting Trafford is in the top 1/3 of keepers in the entire division for shot stopping. The specific metric for this is PsxG - GA (Post shot expected goals - goals actually conceded). This metric looks at the difficulty of the shot (where it’s going in the net) and how ‘expected’ it is to be saved or not. So it’s far more accurate than ‘we’ve conceded long range shots’. So a top third shot stopper in the Prem at 21 years old in a team 19th. Okay, what else? Top third for ‘Crosses stopped’ in the league (CoolClaret likes this one). Interesting stuff.

He will be in the top 1/3rd because he faces the most shots,or very close to it, So I would hope so, that's what he's there for, and if he didn't stop them we'd be beaten more heavily. But that stat alone is far from making him a top keeper imo.

[RVclaret]

He will be in the top 1/3rd because he faces the most shots,or very close to it, So I would hope so, that's what he's there for, and if he didn't stop them we'd be beaten more heavily. But that stat alone is far from making him a top keeper imo.

You’ve misunderstood the specific stat. It doesn’t matter how many shots are faced. It measures the quality of shot faced and how many have actually gone in vs expected to. For a comparison, Gavin Bazunu faced the most shots in the league for Southampton last season, yet he was ranked as the worst in the entire league by this metric.

[CoolClaret]

If we are going to get some stats out then worth highlighting Trafford is in the top 1/3 of keepers in the entire division for shot stopping. The specific metric for this is PsxG - GA (Post shot expected goals - goals actually conceded). This metric looks at the difficulty of the shot (where it’s going in the net) and how ‘expected’ it is to be saved or not. So it’s far more accurate than ‘we’ve conceded long range shots’. So a top third shot stopper in the Prem at 21 years old in a team 19th. Okay, what else? Top third for ‘Crosses stopped’ in the league (CoolClaret likes this one). Interesting stuff.

No issues with shot stopping (though his parries are a bit tame)

Again, it's how the team operates as a collective certainly doesn't take stats to show that he's poor under the high ball whatever way it's framed.

[Nonayforever]

We still 3 player's who instrumental in the system last season in muric, zaroury and Benson, none of which have had a sustained run together in the team this season we also have o'shea who is effectively thb's replacement, who is as good as thb would have been imo, he wouldn't have been as reliable in the prem. So point being the 2 biggest misses are tella and maatsen, in the end we apparently bid £31.5m for maatsen, an earlier bid of round the £20m mark would have got him imo but instead we chose to dally, and tella was worth every penny of the £20m he eventually went for, however I would still have kept Taylor and swap Taylor and maatsen depending on the opponent. So to summarise everyone said prep season that we needed a spine, and still do. So another unit in centre mid, and a further striker would have done, cos jrod just doesn't cut it anymore, no need to make wholesale changes, he had the nucleus and makings of a decent Premier league side, instead vk has chosen to rip the heart out imo. And to round off if he thought Trafford was a good prospect, then sign him, but loan him to championship to take the next step to continue he's progress.

I would also loan Trafford out.
I don't see the point in a having a very young player, who obviously has potential, getting thumped ever week. It won't do his confidence any good at all.
Not signing Maatsen must have left a massive hole in VKs plans and I don't understand why that wasn't addressed.
What will VK do next season ? Go back to playing out from the back ?
Taking the Chelsea lad on loan is also a mystery to me.
What's the plan ? Try to stay in the PL ? Develop another player ?
I would have thought that if VK wants to stay in the PL then get a battle hardened forward.

[Nori1958]

I would also loan Trafford out.
I don't see the point in a having a very young player, who obviously has potential, getting thumped ever week. It won't do his confidence any good at all.
Not signing Maatsen must have left a massive hole in VKs plans and I don't understand why that wasn't addressed.
What will VK do next season ? Go back to playing out from the back ?
Taking the Chelsea lad on loan is also a mystery to me.
What's the plan ? Try to stay in the PL ? Develop another player ?
I would have thought that if VK wants to stay in the PL then get a battle hardened forward.

Which battled hardened forward, who would score goals do you think would come to burnley at this point?

[alwaysaclaret]

I would also loan Trafford out.
I don't see the point in a having a very young player, who obviously has potential, getting thumped ever week. It won't do his confidence any good at all.
Not signing Maatsen must have left a massive hole in VKs plans and I don't understand why that wasn't addressed.
What will VK do next season ? Go back to playing out from the back ?
Taking the Chelsea lad on loan is also a mystery to me.
What's the plan ? Try to stay in the PL ? Develop another player ?
I would have thought that if VK wants to stay in the PL then get a battle hardened forward.

I agree re maatsen, but then what would have happened with Taylor.
More questions than answers obviously, but exactly, what will vk do. It's becoming more apparent as the season goes on that he's way out of he's depth, for instance he continues to make wholesale changes to the squad each game, I believe he still doesn't appear to know he's best 11, or best 14/15, and consequently doesn't seem to have a plan. Hard to work it out as a fan, and worrying imo.